Studies in Dumbness

S

Saina Nieminen

Saina Nieminen
I tend to prefer my Rieslings with some sweetness - though essentially anti-Platonic in my views (if that doesn't sound too oxymoronic), I find the ideal of Riesling in the sugary, steely Saar&Ruwer and in similar low alcohol, sugary styles from elsewhere in Germany. Yet, oddly enough, in Alsace and Austria I find the bone dry style my ideal. I hope someone will someday give me a reason why I love sugar in Germany and love austere dryness elsewhere; I haven't so far been able to put into words my seemingly contradictory preferences.

Domaine Joseph Scharsch Riesling Altenberg de Wolxheim 2007 - Alsace; label

24,30; 13% abv; 7 g/l rs; 7,3 g/l acidity. As I have come to expect from this producer, this is a delightful wine at a moderate price (for Finland, anyway). The nose is a bit quiet and is not very expressive, but it has lovely floral and citric aromas, very mineral. The palate has lovely intensity, grip and purity of fruit. It is dry and steely, yet despite being young it isn't austere. Though in a slightly inexpressive stage, I think this is a lovely, elegant, dry Alsace Riesling. Try again in a few years.

Georg Breuer Rdesheimer Berg Rottland Riesling 2004 - Rheingau, label
12,5% abv. Quite dumb and inexpressive just now. It smells of lime and minerals and pure Riesling fruit, but these typically loud aromas are now as quiet as Morton Feldman's late compositions. Dry and grippy and a little too much on the austerely charmless side for my liking. Yet everything about this seems to show promise: I very much want to try this some years on from now.

We were dumb enough to open these now, though it wasn't a great surprise that they were dumb. But even academic exercises can be fun.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Studies in DumbnessI tend to prefer my Rieslings with some sweetness - though essentially anti-Platonic in my views (if that doesn't sound too oxymoronic), I find the ideal of Riesling in the sugary, steely Saar&Ruwer and in similar low alcohol, sugary styles from elsewhere in Germany. Yet, oddly enough, in Alsace and Austria I find the bone dry style my ideal. I hope someone will someday give me a reason why I love sugar in Germany and love austere dryness elsewhere; I haven't so far been able to put into words my seemingly contradictory preferences.
Click to expand...

It's the higher malic acidity from the colder climes -- the sugar plays against it to give (ideally) an exquisite play and tension. When you don't have sufficient malic (e.g., many, but not all, German wines in 2003) to play against the sugar, you get results that are just as disappointing from Germany as the r.s. table wines in Alsace and Austria.
 
Otto -- I should have added that malic acidity is just one component of total acidity, tartaric being the other major component. As a result, g/l figures for acidity will only go so far, and in some vintages can be misleading. The difference is one reason why some producers often say that vintage A has the same numbers as vintage B -- and yet the wines are totally different. I can't off the top of my head pick out a German producer telling me that (although I think it as happened), but I vividly recall Auguste Clape telling me that about his 1997 an 1998 Cornas, the former a dull wine, the latter outstanding, IMO.
 
Lactic, too, Claude, if the wines undergo MLF.

And acetic, of course, if they undergo other secondary fermentations.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Lactic, too, Claude, if the wines undergo MLF.

And acetic, of course, if they undergo other secondary fermentations.
Click to expand...
You're going to have to search pretty hard to find German whites that undergo M-L (maybe some Chardonnays and Pinot Blancs -- and of course, those are mostly from more southernly regions [although von Schubert is now producing a very attractive Pinot Blanc/Weissburgunder] -- but not Rieslings), and I've never had a secondary fermentation (I presume you mean in bottle) with a German wine -- not surprising given the relatively high sulphur levels.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Lactic, too, Claude, if the wines undergo MLF.

And acetic, of course, if they undergo other secondary fermentations.
Click to expand...
You're going to have to search pretty hard to find German whites that undergo M-L (maybe some Chardonnays and Pinot Blancs -- and of course, those are mostly from more southernly regions [although von Schubert is now producing a very attractive Pinot Blanc/Weissburgunder] -- but not Rieslings), and I've never had a secondary fermentation (I presume you mean in bottle) with a German wine -- not surprising given the relatively high sulphur levels.
Click to expand...

You don't have to search that hard to find Clemens-Busch.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Lactic, too, Claude, if the wines undergo MLF.

And acetic, of course, if they undergo other secondary fermentations.
Click to expand...
You're going to have to search pretty hard to find German whites that undergo M-L (maybe some Chardonnays and Pinot Blancs -- and of course, those are mostly from more southernly regions [although von Schubert is now producing a very attractive Pinot Blanc/Weissburgunder] -- but not Rieslings), and I've never had a secondary fermentation (I presume you mean in bottle) with a German wine -- not surprising given the relatively high sulphur levels.
Click to expand...

You don't have to search that hard to find Clemens-Busch.
Click to expand...
For the wines with rs or just the dry?
 
From what I tasted at Clemens Busch, def some dry but not all seem to go through ML. Sweet, not sure. They don't taste like it.

Steinmetz on some cuvees also uses ML from what I understand.
 
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
From what I tasted at Clemens Busch, def some dry but not all seem to go through ML. Sweet, not sure. They don't taste like it.

Steinmetz on some cuvees also uses ML from what I understand.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but my point, which got a little muddied as I elaborated, is that malic acidty is necessary for the wines with rs. For dry wines, yes, in the northern regions, you've got three choices: live with the acidity, de-acidify, or ML. But a fruity-style wine from the Mosel that went through ML? I think not even in 1996.
 
The last ML wines I had from Germany were some '95s from Lingenfelder (aulese trocken). Over the 15 years or so I have been obsessing about German Riesling I have had exactly three bottles that re-fermented - two from Schmitt-Wagner (Mosel).
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
and I've never had a secondary fermentation (I presume you mean in bottle) with a German wine -- not surprising given the relatively high sulphur levels.
Click to expand...

I've got a bottle of Egon Muller Braune Kupp auction wine (don't recall the vintage, but I'll check if anyone cares) with the cork and capsule pushed about an inch out. The other bottle shot the cork (with capsule attached) across the cellar about 10 feet. I believe he "recalled" the wine, but since I'm here and he's there - I still have it.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
No, they were not.
Click to expand...

I thought German Rieslings got more SO2 than other whites to inhibit malos, but you mentioned (elsewhere) that German malos are inhibited through filtration, and SO2 is used mainly as a preservative and insurance against refermentation. Still, why would German Riesling need higher doses of insurance that most other whites?
 
Oswaldo,

Many sugars react with SO2 to make products that are not very active against microbes or oxidation, the sugars blunt the effect of the SO2. So that SO2 contributes to the "total" count but not the "free" count. If you want an active and useful level of "free," you have to add an excess to account for those lost to the sugar. So wines with rs need more SO2.

Also, you'd rather have higher levels of free SO2 in a wine with a bunch of rs bug food.
 
I took delivery of some 07 Selbach z.s. spatlese "schmitt" that had gone fizzy and pushed out corks (that reminds me, Mayer was supposed to credit me for those).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top