Peter Creasey
Peter Creasey
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7 Wines w/dinner (menu)
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Mark Anisman
Mark Anisman
my understanding is the tarbais is the classic cassoulet bean (grown regionally) but perhaps the flageolet was substituted in the USA as was difficult to get the tarbais. i think i remember reading that the tarbais had lost favor (hard to grow?) and 30-40 years ago was only found in family gardens.
i have a word in to Steve Sando of Rancho Gordo for his take.
i have a word in to Steve Sando of Rancho Gordo for his take.
Mark Anisman
Mark Anisman
Rancho Gordo sells the tarbais beans as "cassoulet beans", acknowledging the fact that the name tarbais emanates from the region where they are traditionally grown (Tarbes, France).
Rancho Gordo grows the same bean but in California. I do not know if France allows beans that were from Tarbes but not grown there to be called tarbais beans. One can now find "tarbais beans" on the internet, but often it is not clear if they are from Tarbes region.
from Rancho Gordo website : "Rather than suffer French prices, which can run up to $30 a pound when out of season, we took seed from France and produced this bean with our distinct terroir here in California. Tarbais beans were developed by generations of farmers in Tarbes, France. The original seed is a New World bean and most likely originated in Mexico. Out of respect for the French farmers and terroir, we're calling the bean Cassoulet Bean. We think in order to call it Tarbais, it should be grown in southwestern France. "
am i also correct mark e?
as a side note, our local cassoulet heroine, Bettylu Kessler, would use navy beans. she felt they hold up the best for enduring the long hours of cooking....
not sure if she ever used "tarbais" beans, but definitely eschewed the flageolet.
Rancho Gordo grows the same bean but in California. I do not know if France allows beans that were from Tarbes but not grown there to be called tarbais beans. One can now find "tarbais beans" on the internet, but often it is not clear if they are from Tarbes region.
from Rancho Gordo website : "Rather than suffer French prices, which can run up to $30 a pound when out of season, we took seed from France and produced this bean with our distinct terroir here in California. Tarbais beans were developed by generations of farmers in Tarbes, France. The original seed is a New World bean and most likely originated in Mexico. Out of respect for the French farmers and terroir, we're calling the bean Cassoulet Bean. We think in order to call it Tarbais, it should be grown in southwestern France. "
am i also correct mark e?
as a side note, our local cassoulet heroine, Bettylu Kessler, would use navy beans. she felt they hold up the best for enduring the long hours of cooking....
not sure if she ever used "tarbais" beans, but definitely eschewed the flageolet.
Are you correct about the use of the name "Tarbais?" Not entirely sure. Probably; I believe it is something similar to Champagne. Tarbais beans may need to come from the Tarbes region. Not a fan of Rancho Gordo, but they are likely right to avoid using the name.
Still wondering what Bertolini are.
Sure. But I probably will unleash a firestorm of pushback, if one can say that. First of all, my information dates back a decade when I lived in California (so things may have changed), but the farming practices at that time were entirely conventional (ergo use of chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides). And at that time they got particularly stroppy if anyone asked about it.
I had no problem sourcing dry beans from local organic farms, both in California (La Tercera) and then in North Carolina (South Wind).
Fair enough. I remember you were a stickler for organic.
And I think we've shared our love of Annabelle's products before. She was always reliable with beans when I lived in Berkeley. Angie is also great, but her bean crop has been much smaller and less reliable. There were no beans at all last year. I've been in Berlin this year so not sure what it was like, but I doubt it was plentiful (at least for someone like me who goes through 1-2 lbs per week of dried beans/lentils).
FWIW, this is what Rancho Gordo currently has on the website:
Are your beans organic?
No. Most of our beans are grown with no preventative spraying but these are heirlooms and in some cases, we are the sole source of commercial seed. If the yields are low or a crop is threatened, we can use conventional farming techniques. In some cases we have to use fertilizers, depending on the soil. Our main mission is preserving these heirloom varieties and making them commercially viable.
When we do have to spray, it occurs before the plant even flowers. Beans grow in pods, so the issues regarding organic growing for a root vegetable or leafy green and a dried bean aren't really the same, from our point of view.
And I think we've shared our love of Annabelle's products before. She was always reliable with beans when I lived in Berkeley. Angie is also great, but her bean crop has been much smaller and less reliable. There were no beans at all last year. I've been in Berlin this year so not sure what it was like, but I doubt it was plentiful (at least for someone like me who goes through 1-2 lbs per week of dried beans/lentils).
FWIW, this is what Rancho Gordo currently has on the website:
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www.ranchogordo.com
Are your beans organic?
No. Most of our beans are grown with no preventative spraying but these are heirlooms and in some cases, we are the sole source of commercial seed. If the yields are low or a crop is threatened, we can use conventional farming techniques. In some cases we have to use fertilizers, depending on the soil. Our main mission is preserving these heirloom varieties and making them commercially viable.
When we do have to spray, it occurs before the plant even flowers. Beans grow in pods, so the issues regarding organic growing for a root vegetable or leafy green and a dried bean aren't really the same, from our point of view.
Well, obviously I don’t agree with their point of view. The issues are very much the same.
And, BTW, I don't particularly care for your use of the word "stickler," which is not entirely positive, while I believe that improving the health of the soil and the environment is paramount.
What has always been important to Rancho Gordo is saving old varieties and producing them. They don't really care about the production side, which had always been contracted out.
Yes, Tarbais carries the "Label Rouge" origin protection. Its less common in vegetable crops than wine or cheese but there are several throughout France, Italy, and Spain. Tarbais is similar to something like Vidalia onions, in that there are a couple very similar yet subtly different varieties that are allowable under the name/origin protection. We grow and sell one called "Alaric". Flageolet are much more commonly available because they have much better agronomic qualities to be produced on scale, primarily in that they are a bush bean whereas Tarbais is a climbing one. Many of the bean varieties that have very strong associations with specific regional cuisine are pole beans because they require so much more work and consequently commitment to cultural identity of place to have survived this long. We grow about a ton of dry beans annually and we certainly work a lot harder for the pole beans (though several of them are our favorites).
Regarding organic production, beans are pretty adaptable to mechanical cultivation as opposed to using herbicides and they are light feeders in terms of soil fertility. I think Mark is pretty spot on about Rancho Gordo, that their priority is preservation first, and I appreciate the work Steve has done to elevate the crop and the commercially available diversity here in the US. I don't have any reason to doubt what they say about only spraying before flowering but there are certainly more questionable practices in non organic bean production. Like in grain production, in some areas glyphosate is used as a ripening agent at the very end of the growing season to speed up and create a more uniform dry-down (by essentially killing the crop plant) just prior to combining. Heirloom varieties of beans, like other vegetable crops, often lack some of the agronomic qualities of modern cultivars, one being that pods will shatter and drop their beans if left to over ripen, so evenness of maturity is pretty important on scale.
As far as them saying that Tarbais can command $30/lb in France when out of season... I'm not sure when dry beans are "out of season"
Your resident bean enthusiast
Brian
Mark Anisman
Mark Anisman
thank you all for this information! and thank you Peter for instigating the discussion!!
Peter, did the wine complement the dish? would you have chosen a different wine?
and I also am not sure what a bertolini bean is.
does La Tercera still exist? a 2011 farmers market article does talk about La Tercera farms, but the link is a dead end now. Annabelle Lenderink was at the Berkeley Farmers Market. perhaps she retired? Star Route Farms? I certainly enjoy Rancho Gordo beans but would be interested in supporting organic growers...
and is Angie in California?
Peter, did the wine complement the dish? would you have chosen a different wine?
and I also am not sure what a bertolini bean is.
does La Tercera still exist? a 2011 farmers market article does talk about La Tercera farms, but the link is a dead end now. Annabelle Lenderink was at the Berkeley Farmers Market. perhaps she retired? Star Route Farms? I certainly enjoy Rancho Gordo beans but would be interested in supporting organic growers...
and is Angie in California?
Tarbais is an IGP.
Here are the list of the cantons where it has to be grown to be called Tarbais :
Hautes-Pyrénées (65) Argelès-Gazost, Maubourguet, Aureilban, Mauléon-Barousse, Bagnères-de-Bigorre, Pouyastruc, Bordères-s/Echez, Rabastens, Campan, Saint-Laurent-de-Neste, Castelnau-Magnoac, Saint-Pé-de-Bigorre, Castelnau-Rivière-Basse, Séméac, Galan, Tarbes, La Barthe-de-Neste, Tournay, Laloubère, Trie-sur-Baise, Larmemezan, Ossun, Lourdes, Vic-Bigorre.
Gers (32) Marciac, Mirande, Masseube, Plaisance, Miélan, Riscle.
Haute-Garonne (31) Boulogne-sur-Gesse, Montréjeau.
Pyrénées Atlantiques (64) Lembeye, Nay, Montaner, Pontacq
As far as I know, there are 2 cultivars (varietals?) allowed : alaric and lapujole
Here are the list of the cantons where it has to be grown to be called Tarbais :
Hautes-Pyrénées (65) Argelès-Gazost, Maubourguet, Aureilban, Mauléon-Barousse, Bagnères-de-Bigorre, Pouyastruc, Bordères-s/Echez, Rabastens, Campan, Saint-Laurent-de-Neste, Castelnau-Magnoac, Saint-Pé-de-Bigorre, Castelnau-Rivière-Basse, Séméac, Galan, Tarbes, La Barthe-de-Neste, Tournay, Laloubère, Trie-sur-Baise, Larmemezan, Ossun, Lourdes, Vic-Bigorre.
Gers (32) Marciac, Mirande, Masseube, Plaisance, Miélan, Riscle.
Haute-Garonne (31) Boulogne-sur-Gesse, Montréjeau.
Pyrénées Atlantiques (64) Lembeye, Nay, Montaner, Pontacq
As far as I know, there are 2 cultivars (varietals?) allowed : alaric and lapujole
Peter Creasey
Peter Creasey
Mark, the Phelps Insignia '95 was so fine that night that I think it would not have mattered what it was served with...okay, at least a slight exaggeration. Everyone thought it worked well with the bean cassoulet, duck confit, duck, and sausage. It was a memorable course, largely because the Phelps Insignia was so marvelous -- medium dark red, blueberries, black currants, complex in a soft way, tannins mostly in abeyance, full and lush, elegant, good length, hard to imagine how it can get any better but plenty of life left. [E-O]
I went to a tasting back in the 70s of most all of the premium '74s. I was blown away by the Phelps Insignia '94 so I bought quite a bit and then subsequently some of the '95 also. Both the '94 and '95 have never disappointed.
. . . . . Pete
Jim Hanlon
Jim Hanlon
Mark, Blue House Farms is an organic grower near Santa Cruz who does dried heirloom beans. I buy them at a farmers market -- they aren't in the North Bay and their web site doesn't say anything about shipping. But perhaps if you asked.... I've found their quality and selection to be really enjoyable.
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bluehousefarm.com
Mark Anisman
Mark Anisman
good answer Peter!
thank you Jim for the blue house farm info. occasionally i am near san gregorio so i could stop by the farmstand.
thank you Rahsaan and Brézème. I still fondly recall tasting wine in your cellar in 2010 and doubling back promptly to start buying your wines. I have Chambers Street to thank for the letter of introduction.
thank you Jim for the blue house farm info. occasionally i am near san gregorio so i could stop by the farmstand.
thank you Rahsaan and Brézème. I still fondly recall tasting wine in your cellar in 2010 and doubling back promptly to start buying your wines. I have Chambers Street to thank for the letter of introduction.
robert ames
robert ames
". . . .it worked well with the bean cassoulet, . . ."
is bean cassoulet for those that use their PIN number when getting money out of an ATM machine?
is bean cassoulet for those that use their PIN number when getting money out of an ATM machine?