Thoughts on Griffe du Marquis?

B

BJ

BJ
RWC has the '21 and I was going to go deep, but now reading deeper gives me pause...barrique raised, as new as 2 years, and I see some notes here about wood...

Is this like some of the other uber cuvees from Lapierre and Foillard? If so I'll pass.
 
Others here have much more extensive knowledge, but I will add that I don't think the Foillard 3.14 or the Lapierre Cuvee Marcel are necessarily the right analogy. I could be wrong, but it seems like the Lapierre and Foillard cuvees are from special parcels. Or at least they seem bigger and riper.

As you probably know, the Griffe is the exact same grapes that go into the Tardive, but with different barrels. So yes you'll be able to taste the difference, but not necessarily in scale or depth of the raw material compared to the Tardive. It's more of a different structure. Which you might find interesting.

I've found it even more difficult to get the right timing on the Griffe, so I haven't bought much, but I know some people like it.
 
I am oak averse. I cannot taste any oak on the Griffe. The website describes it as from vines planted in the 30s, whereas it describes the tactics as from wines older than 60 years, for what it's worth. I like the wine, and 21 should be a nice version. Non-stop solar years will be rarer and rarer, so this one is a better bet than what may be coming down the pike.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Others here have much more extensive knowledge, but I will add that I don't think the Foillard 3.14 or the Lapierre Cuvee Marcel are necessarily the right analogy.
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yep, unlike 3.14 and CM that have too much alcohol, it has too much wood

(not oak flavors, but rather structural challenges that i can only associate with oak)

as pointed out though, the wine has fans in the central committee
 
It’s great. Find a 2017 if you can. It’s my favorite wine of all the Roilette. I never get new oak flavor but what I’ve noticed with the Griffe is the wine doesn’t seem to go through the unpredictable open closed phases that the Tardive does, maybe because of the small barrels?

I just read RM above on the timing, I guess I’m the opposite and find the Tardive trickier to predict.
 
You know, so helpful to have a resource like this to understand who may or may not be on the Politburo (note: "in" or "on"?).
 
The Mme swears the 3.14 and Marcel see oak...I know they don't...perhaps just density of the wine, super old vines, possible stems?
 
originally posted by Marc D:
I just read RM above on the timing, I guess I’m the opposite and find the Tardive trickier to predict.
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May be. I've had much less of the Griffe. I bought maybe a handful of vintages. Didn't love them and found it tricky to time, so I stopped.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Marc D:
I just read RM above on the timing, I guess I’m the opposite and find the Tardive trickier to predict.
Click to expand...

May be. I've had much less of the Griffe. I bought maybe a handful of vintages. Didn't love them and found it tricky to time, so I stopped.
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I think I am not expressing well what I’m trying to say. Not so much about predictability and being shut down but more about the GdM being more open and generous at any given stage than the Tardive. I think this could be pretty easily explained by the small barrels and increased oxygen exposure, but I’m sure it’s more complicated. My enthusiasm for the GdM is likely influenced by recency bias because the 2017 cuvee was a real stand out for me.
 
originally posted by Marc D:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Marc D:
I just read RM above on the timing, I guess I’m the opposite and find the Tardive trickier to predict.
Click to expand...

May be. I've had much less of the Griffe. I bought maybe a handful of vintages. Didn't love them and found it tricky to time, so I stopped.
Click to expand...

I think I am not expressing well what I’m trying to say. Not so much about predictability and being shut down but more about the GdM being more open and generous at any given stage than the Tardive. I think this could be pretty easily explained by the small barrels and increased oxygen exposure, but I’m sure it’s more complicated. My enthusiasm for the GdM is likely influenced by recency bias because the 2017 cuvee was a real stand out for me.
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As was the 2019 for me, drunk at Auberge du Cep in Fleurie in June 2022.

Outstanding value for money restaurant BTW; I revisited later the same year.
 
I was a fan of the early vintages of Coudert GdM, but I have not tasted any recent vintages (although I admit to picking up a few 2021s). I have a bottle or two of the 2010 left which I am happy to open with anyone who is around and curious.
 
originally posted by Marc D:
It’s great. Find a 2017 if you can. It’s my favorite wine of all the Roilette. I never get new oak flavor but what I’ve noticed with the Griffe is the wine doesn’t seem to go through the unpredictable open closed phases that the Tardive does, maybe because of the small barrels?

I just read RM above on the timing, I guess I’m the opposite and find the Tardive trickier to predict.
Click to expand...

This. And also 2009 and 2010 have aged beautifully.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
I was a fan of the early vintages of Coudert GdM, but I have not tasted any recent vintages (although I admit to picking up a few 2021s). I have a bottle or two of the 2010 left which I am happy to open with anyone who is around and curious.
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For our next event? It’s a good wine.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
I was a fan of the early vintages of Coudert GdM, but I have not tasted any recent vintages (although I admit to picking up a few 2021s). I have a bottle or two of the 2010 left which I am happy to open with anyone who is around and curious.
Click to expand...

For our next event? It’s a good wine.
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Sounds good to me!
 
Per my note in another thread, a 2011 this year was the first bottle (of five 2011s imbibed) that was really good wine, IMHO, right after opening - and really good wine it was. My thesis now, therefore, is that this cuvee is a vin de garde that needs ample cellar time (calibrated for vintage) to show its all. Need to open a '13 soon to test the proposition.

I'm not a quercophobe but thought I discerned a slight (beneficial) signature of wood treatment in the mature wine, though unsure if new or neutral. Rahsaan, can you say more about the Griffe's distinctive barrel treatment?
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Rahsaan, can you say more about the Griffe's distinctive barrel treatment?
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I don't think I'm the expert here! I thought the standard distinction was that Tardive goes into foudre and Griffe goes into barrique, and maybe stays longer although not sure if it's the same length each vintage?
 
Interesting, I thought I maybe detected a bit of new oak but wasn't sure - sometimes really old vine Gamay can show that way.
 
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