Touraine, Touraine, wherefore art thou Touraine

R

Rahsaan

Rahsaan
Started my love of Loire chenin with the late 90s and early 00 vintages. I haven't drunk as much in recent years, but of course I know the broad trends, and I do keep up a bit. Still, these two bottles really hammered home how much the world has evolved.

2023 Huet Le Mont Sec and 2023 Chidaine Clos du Breuil. Both used to be the freshest crispest wines in their respect stables. But in 2023, both are ripe rich golden wines, with waxy layers that evoke chenin, although for my frame of reference it might lean more towards the power of Anjou than the delicate frame I expect from Touraine.

With air and enough introspection, one can find the mineral precision of Le Mont and the firm modesty of Clos du Breuil. But this is a different world, I dare to say even more ripe and polished than 2003. I probably won't bet on these wines aging closer to my palate. But they are undoubtedly delicious, just not what I remember...
 
Along the same lines, and perhaps for similar reasons, I have tasted some distinctive and interesting Sauvignons de Touraine over the past few years.

They seem fuller-bodied (but not heavy), more alcoholic (by mid-Loire standards), earthier, more complex and less herbaceous than the inexpensive Touraine SBs of yore. François Chidaine's is one example of the new wave.

They aren't my favorite expressions of SB, but some are quite good and they are interesting and different.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
...They seem fuller-bodied (but not heavy), more alcoholic (by mid-Loire standards), earthier, more complex and less herbaceous than the inexpensive Touraine SBs of yore. François Chidaine's for example.

They aren't my favorite expressions of SB, but some are quite good and they are interesting and different.
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Yes, the world does keep evolving. I rarely drink Sancerre and the like but came back in touch with a few and had a similar reaction. It's everywhere!
 
2022 and 2023 were very warm. I’m guessing it was hard to adapt the viticulture. Especially if diurnal swings were not conducive to a more controlled growing season. I am guessing a little based on what I’ve also seen in bottle. Contrast 2021s and 2019s where wines are fresher and nervier.

Re: Huet plainly there has been an interest by the Hwangs to have an overall drier portfolio even if they continue to make the full range when possible. I wonder if through canopy management, pruning, and perhaps earlier picking it is possible to deal with the climate effects. But maybe not.
 
Yes, I don't want to take things completely out of context. It is true we can get a different expression in 2021 (even if that is rarer). But many things evolve and these wines seem like a different beast even from 03 and 05 (although that's obviously relying on memory so may be faulty).

Will see about 2024, although early indications suggest more challenging than 2021.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Touraine, Touraine, wherefore art thou TouraineStarted my love of Loire chenin with the late 90s and early 00 vintages. I haven't drunk as much in recent years, but of course I know the broad trends, and I do keep up a bit. Still, these two bottles really hammered home how much the world has evolved.

2023 Huet Le Mont Sec and 2023 Chidaine Clos du Breuil. Both used to be the freshest crispest wines in their respect stables. But in 2023, both are ripe rich golden wines, with waxy layers that evoke chenin, although for my frame of reference it might lean more towards the power of Anjou than the delicate frame I expect from Touraine.

With air and enough introspection, one can find the mineral precision of Le Mont and the firm modesty of Clos du Breuil. But this is a different world, I dare to say even more ripe and polished than 2003. I probably won't bet on these wines aging closer to my palate. But they are undoubtedly delicious, just not what I remember...
Click to expand...

Here comes the board pedant again. "Wherefore" does not mean where but why. When Juliet says "Wherefore art thou Romeo" (without comma please notice) she is not asking Romeo where he is but rather why he is named Montagu (since that name makes him an enemy to her family). Thus the next line, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Touraine, Touraine, wherefore art thou TouraineStarted my love of Loire chenin with the late 90s and early 00 vintages. I haven't drunk as much in recent years, but of course I know the broad trends, and I do keep up a bit. Still, these two bottles really hammered home how much the world has evolved.

2023 Huet Le Mont Sec and 2023 Chidaine Clos du Breuil. Both used to be the freshest crispest wines in their respect stables. But in 2023, both are ripe rich golden wines, with waxy layers that evoke chenin, although for my frame of reference it might lean more towards the power of Anjou than the delicate frame I expect from Touraine.

With air and enough introspection, one can find the mineral precision of Le Mont and the firm modesty of Clos du Breuil. But this is a different world, I dare to say even more ripe and polished than 2003. I probably won't bet on these wines aging closer to my palate. But they are undoubtedly delicious, just not what I remember...
Click to expand...

Here comes the board pedant again. "Wherefore" does not mean where but why. When Juliet says "Wherefore art thou Romeo" (without comma please notice) she is not asking Romeo where he is but rather why he is named Montagu (since that name makes him an enemy to her family). Thus the next line, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
Click to expand...

I assumed he was asking why are you labeled Touraine when you don’t taste like it ?
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Along the same lines, and perhaps for similar reasons, I have tasted some distinctive and interesting Sauvignons de Touraine over the past few years.

They seem fuller-bodied (but not heavy), more alcoholic (by mid-Loire standards), earthier, more complex and less herbaceous than the inexpensive Touraine SBs of yore. François Chidaine's for example.

They aren't my favorite expressions of SB, but some are quite good and they are interesting and different.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I've been really digging some of the Touraine SBs...different than many (not all) Sancerres (which are hard to generalize about, so many different terroirs)...

For example check out Trotereau Quincy VV...wow.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Touraine, Touraine, wherefore art thou TouraineStarted my love of Loire chenin with the late 90s and early 00 vintages. I haven't drunk as much in recent years, but of course I know the broad trends, and I do keep up a bit. Still, these two bottles really hammered home how much the world has evolved.

2023 Huet Le Mont Sec and 2023 Chidaine Clos du Breuil. Both used to be the freshest crispest wines in their respect stables. But in 2023, both are ripe rich golden wines, with waxy layers that evoke chenin, although for my frame of reference it might lean more towards the power of Anjou than the delicate frame I expect from Touraine.

With air and enough introspection, one can find the mineral precision of Le Mont and the firm modesty of Clos du Breuil. But this is a different world, I dare to say even more ripe and polished than 2003. I probably won't bet on these wines aging closer to my palate. But they are undoubtedly delicious, just not what I remember...
Click to expand...

Here comes the board pedant again. "Wherefore" does not mean where but why. When Juliet says "Wherefore art thou Romeo" (without comma please notice) she is not asking Romeo where he is but rather why he is named Montagu (since that name makes him an enemy to her family). Thus the next line, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
Click to expand...

I assumed he was asking why are you labeled Touraine when you don’t taste like it ?
Click to expand...

Shouldn’t he have written in that case, “Huet, Huet, wherefore art thou Touraine?
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
2022 and 2023 were very warm. I’m guessing it was hard to adapt the viticulture. Especially if diurnal swings were not conducive to a more controlled growing season. I am guessing a little based on what I’ve also seen in bottle. Contrast 2021s and 2019s where wines are fresher and nervier.

Re: Huet plainly there has been an interest by the Hwangs to have an overall drier portfolio even if they continue to make the full range when possible. I wonder if through canopy management, pruning, and perhaps earlier picking it is possible to deal with the climate effects. But maybe not.
Click to expand...

Canopy management has huge impact on SB. I've tasted trials where training and canopy management were the only thing changed and the wines came out very different.

Big diurnal shifts help maintain acidity and keep pH lower; but other flavor precursors will continue to evolve in accordance with the warmth and sunlight. So you can get a better balanced wine in a warmer location, but the fruit quality will still be "warmer." An example of this is Lake County Sauvignon Blanc in California - usually good acid and freshness, but the fruit is typically more melon-pea rather than lemon/lime-grassy-bell pepper. Jed Steele used to say "it tastes like someone already blended Semillon into it."
 
Decided to move west and thrust my palate into the 2022 Domaine aux Moines Savennières Roche aux Moines, after having enjoyed some of the recent vintages. But this too smacked me with sweet thick ripe fruit. Not at all what I want!

I can see how the thick rich textures are 'impressive', and the finely-knit layers do speak to good winemaking, which cannot ignore the climate. It became more enjoyable on the second day, with more clarity and crunch. But overall, too heavy and alcoholic for me to really get excited.

I guess I have to wait for the special cool vintages and pounce on those! (Complete turnaround from previous decades...)
 
Faith restored, but only just. The 2021 Chidaine Les Choisilles is a perfect blend of ripe polished modern juicy gulpability with the tactile tension and mineral detail that I remember from yesteryear. I bought a few but should have bought more! (Will see what future vintages bring...)
 
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