Narrative Expectations: Proust, Mann and C19 novels

[Putnam Weekley]

first!

 

[Putnam Weekley]

Last night with what might be Michigan's best Pizza - Supino in Detroit's Eastern Market - I drank a bottle of 1999 Knigsbacher Idig Spaetburgunder at 68 deg. F. It was very good, sort of chocolatey for a Pinot Noir, but lean enough for sport. (Idig is a loamy mix of loess, chalk, and sandstone according to Jesse Becker.) Mouthes le Bihan 2006 La Pie Colette arrived at 73 deg. F and it was showing more roundness than I anticipated. Earlier in the week, at 63 deg., it was epic with hamburgers.

Here's an attempt to split another thread on the subject of wine serving temperature (I mean no violence to the other thread, but I was beginning to lose the ability to scan the topic, one that is of great interest to me):

originally posted by SteveTimko:
Thoughts on serving temperaturesI'm about to crack open a Chianti and it reminded me of the back of a Chianti Kermit Lynch imported in which he talked about serving temperature. I'm going off memory, but I believe he suggests serving that wine at 68 degrees.

So I know we're all pretty much wine veterans and know by taste if a wine is too warm or too cold. But I'm wondering what the board's general thoughts are about serving temperatures?

For instance, I've found Siduri pinots seem to show better when they're chilled, but Sea Smoke is better warmer.

Just trying to get the discussion started.

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I would rather start off by serving the bottle too cold and letting it warm up, than the other way around. Unless I dinner was being served at just that moment of first opening.

originally posted by Putnam Weekley:
good wine tastes good at all temperatures, just differnet

originally posted by SFJoe:
If I'm drinking high alcohol pinot, an ice bucket sure is welcome.

originally posted by Arjun Mendiratta:
Red wine that has been stored in my unheated apartment requires 15-20 minutes in the fridge in order to give maximum pleasure. If it's coming from the shop, it needs longer. Direct from the storage facility is usually pretty good, so that would suggest my optimal temperature is somewhere between 55-60. I think this might make me a bit of an outlier.

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I certainly prefer red wines at 19th century room temperature (ca 65F). But I find numbers of friends who like wine prefer red wine warmer. Heat brings out alcohol but it also can make the fruit rounder, so to speak. There is a scene early in The Magic Mountain in which Hans Castorp sends a bottle of Gruaud Larose back to be warmed by a fire so not all C19 people liked wine at C19 room temperature. As I say, I don't share this taste, but it does exist.

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Putnam Weekley:
good wine tastes good at all temperatures, just differnet

I can't agree. Proper temperature is crucial to getting the acidity and other elements in balance. For red Burgundy, if the wine is served too warm, the effect of the acidity is lost and the wine loses its precision and purity and can become flabby and in some cases overly alcoholic. This is a prime reason why many people say that they don't understand what others see in Burgundy -- they drink the wines too warm.

Re Steve's original question: in the Johnson/Robinson Wine Atlas of the World, there is a chart for serving temperatures for a large number of wines that works extremely well.

originally posted by Lee Short:
But Claude..."it's a crapshoot" as to whether you drink the wine at the right temperature, no?

I've never seen a better explanation for why "Burgundy is a minefield". Let the rubes think that, I say...more for me.

originally posted by Florida Jim:

originally posted by Lee Short:
I've never seen a better explanation for why "Burgundy is a minefield". Let the rubes think that, I say...more for me.

Fortunately, we rubes are not easily offended.
Or put off our Burgundy.
Best, Jim

originally posted by JasonA:
I consider proper temperature the fifth element for proper wine enjoyment and could not agree more with Claude on this issue. I am firmly in the cellar temperature, 55-60, camp.

originally posted by Putnam Weekley:
Can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong?

I prefer Pepiere Muscadet at 65 deg. F but I think its still very "good" at 40.

Most of Thierry Puzelat's red wines are deliciously detailed at 45 deg. F, and compellingly slutty at 70 deg. F. I don't know which I prefer.

Cheap Pinot Grigio tastes tolerable ice cold (or mixed with sparkling water) but no good at all at 50 deg. F.

Some nameless, ponderous trophy reds taste sweet enough to keep down at 68 deg. F but bitter like burning oil at 55 deg. F.

originally posted by Ruben Ramos:

originally posted by Lee Short:

I've never seen a better explanation for why "Burgundy is a minefield". Let the rubes think that, I say...more for me.

Hey! Not all Rubes are rubes.

Best, Rube

originally posted by David M. Bueker:
If I am drinking Seasmoke I tend to worry less about serving temp and more about the nearest fire extinguisher.

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by SteveTimko: I've found Siduri pinots...Sea Smoke...

Just trying to get the discussion started.

Well for discussion around here you might try using different examples :)

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
For red Burgundy, if the wine is served too warm, the effect of the acidity is lost and the wine loses its precision and purity and can become flabby and in some cases overly alcoholic. This is a prime reason why many people say that they don't understand what others see in Burgundy -- they drink the wines too warm.

I didn't know that 'flabby and overly alcoholic' was the most common critique of Burgundy.

originally posted by Lee Short:

originally posted by Putnam Weekley:
Can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong?

I prefer Pepiere Muscadet at 65 deg. F

Putnam, dude, I understand that you guys in Detroit will do anything for heat in the winter...but I lived 18 long years in Minnesota without resorting to this sort of behavior. Clearly you need the tonic of a good Ripasso.

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
For red Burgundy, if the wine is served too warm, the effect of the acidity is lost and the wine loses its precision and purity and can become flabby and in some cases overly alcoholic. This is a prime reason why many people say that they don't understand what others see in Burgundy -- they drink the wines too warm.

I didn't know that 'flabby and overly alcoholic' was the most common critique of Burgundy.

Try 'em at '68-70 F. Also, I didn't say THE most common critique.

originally posted by Putnam Weekley:

originally posted by Lee Short:

originally posted by Putnam Weekley:
Can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong?

I prefer Pepiere Muscadet at 65 deg. F

Putnam, dude, I understand that you guys in Detroit will do anything for heat in the winter...but I lived 18 long years in Minnesota without resorting to this sort of behavior. Clearly you need the tonic of a good Ripasso.

You say if I were to drink a good Ripasso I could avoid drinking warm Muscadet.

On the other hand, if I drink warm Muscadet then I can avoid drinking good Ripasso!

originally posted by Joel Stewart:
fruit bomb type wines that (unfortunately) still lurk in the back of my cellar seem better with a little age on them, and served on the chill side of cool. more pleasurable acidity and tannic grip and overall better balance. the warmer they get, the more they resemble a water-doused wicked witch.

 

[MarkS]

Damn! A commodious COM PEN DI UM!!!