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MarkS

Mark Svereika
Nothing truly outstanding here. No wows, pows, or sockit-to-me punch.
A fading rose, neutrality of disposition, and a nervy little sucker.

Texier, Condrieu, 'Janrode', 2005
I know this man is treated by this board as a minor demi-god, but this wine begs the question: "What is Condrieu?" I look to Condrieu for wines with a flamboyant nose, and a fleshy body, perhaps even something with curves on its frame. Here we have a wine which, by admission, is well made, ...but not Conrieu. The nose is muted, with a lemon honeysuckle bent along with tickseed. Tastes more like a Friulian white than something made with viognier. Weird. Where's the exotic fruit and richness? Heady lemon and lime oils in the glass, a bitter almond finish. Has a dull mouthfeel despite having good acidity. For $40+, a pass. 12.5% B+

Domaine Joseph Voillot, Volnay, 'les Fremiets', 2004
Light translucent cranberry red color. Charcoal, green bean, and light red fruits on the nose, while the palate shows sweet-tart red fruits with a stronish wallop of acidity. Plenty of redcurrants and cranberry, with slight secondhand smoke filling the stem. B/B+ But can't complain at closeout pricing of less than $20.

Chateau du Beaucastel, Chateauneuf-du-Pape, 1996
As soon as I opened and poured and saw a rusty old maroon color, I thought, "oh oh", and was pretty much proved right. This wine is like going to your grandparents attic after they have died, and opening old trucks and chests and inhaling the old love letters, woolen sweaters, and bridal veils from times past. There is some old cedar closet, pressed roses from a book that have lost their color. In the mouth is some cherry liquer,worn cedar that has lost it's smell, old homemade blackberry or elderberry wine, stewed goji berries. Fading now, with iron oxide like tannins. Past it's prime, at least for this bottle. Thanks for the memories! B+

And 2 wines without extensive notes:

Andre Kientzler, Riesling, "Geisberg", 2002
My first time with this producer, who I've never seen before. Brisk, like squeezing an unripened grapefruit and sucking on it's peel brisk. Fine acids that kept this drinking fine for 4 days. 13% Not sure how this will age, because there is not a lot of dimension beyond the acid structure, but I feel it is young still. Puts Muscadet to shame as a tooth enamel sucker. B+

Rocca delle Macie, Chianti Classico, 2006
Haven't had one of these in years. A standard bearing Chinati. Nothing special, but nothing bad or truly sinister either. Decent ripe plum-cherry and licorice, a little soft. [90% sangiovese, 5% merlo, 5% canaiolo] B/B+
 
Andre Kientzler, Riesling, "Geisberg", 2002
My first time with this producer, who I've never seen before. Brisk, like squeezing an unripened grapefruit and sucking on it's peel brisk. Fine acids that kept this drinking fine for 4 days. 13% Not sure how this will age, because there is not a lot of dimension beyond the acid structure, but I feel it is young still.
As a generalization based on their history, fairly well, and a decline is certainly a long, long way off. They don't always develop the complexity that their neighbor down the street (with vines in Geisberg & Osterberg) does, but they definitely age. As for this specific wine, it's probably in a bit of a closed stage, but the acid has always been...plentiful. I'm not worried, exactly, but I'll be keeping an eye on it.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by MarkS:
this wine begs the question:
Aieeeeee.
Actually it answers the question - at least as well as any other wine bearing that label these days. As for Eric, we regard him as a peasant.

Sorry to hear about the Beaucastel. I would have thought that wine would be holding better.
 
originally posted by Jeff Connell:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by MarkS:
this wine begs the question:
Aieeeeee.
Actually it answers the question - at least as well as any other wine bearing that label these days. As for Eric, we regard him as a peasant.

Sorry to hear about the Beaucastel. I would have thought that wine would be holding better.

I don't want to speak for everyone here, but Eric is far from a demi-god, he's just a man. A man who has been doing really admirable work lately. I wouldn't call Eric a peasant, I would call him a punk.

If fact, I would take the following:

originally posted by MarkS:
Texier, Condrieu, 'Janrode', 2005
I know this man is treated by this board as a minor demi-god, but this wine begs the question: "What is Condrieu?" I look to Condrieu for wines with a flamboyant nose, and a fleshy body, perhaps even something with curves on its frame. Here we have a wine which, by admission, is well made, ...but not Conrieu. The nose is muted, with a lemon honeysuckle bent along with tickseed. Tastes more like a Friulian white than something made with viognier. Weird. Where's the exotic fruit and richness? Heady lemon and lime oils in the glass, a bitter almond finish. Has a dull mouthfeel despite having good acidity. For $40+, a pass. 12.5% B+

and expand on what Jeff wrote above. This may be Condrieu as it should be. The very ripe, fat, and to my palate flat and gross style of Condrieu might be an artifact of a particular point in time when a style emerged as seemingly commercially viable to the expense of a truer expression of Condrieu.

I base this on the fact that I find most Condrieu disgusting and I like Eric's quite a bit. Maybe not enough to purchase it, but I do enjoy drinking it.
 
I have never tried Texier's Condrieu - sadly, since it seems from your note like one I would actually enjoy.

I recently had two "off-vintages" (if one permits such terminology) of Brettcastle: '92 and '94 - both were great fun to drink now. Apparently some less than great years of the wine can age well.
 
originally posted by VLM

and expand on what Jeff wrote above. This may be Condrieu as it should be. The very ripe, fat, and to my palate flat and gross style of Condrieu might be an artifact of a particular point in time when a style emerged as seemingly commercially viable to the expense of a truer expression of Condrieu.

I base this on the fact that I find most Condrieu disgusting and I like Eric's quite a bit. Maybe not enough to purchase it, but I do enjoy drinking it.

So you say, Narcissius?

I agree with you in that I find many current Condrieu ponderous, but I'm not sure how you get from "I don't like it" to "an artifact of a particular point in time when a style emerged as seemingly commercially viable to the expense of a truer expression of Condrieu".

I've never had any wine from before this purported style change away from the 'true expression', do you have any?
 
originally posted by mlawton:

I've never had any wine from before this purported style change away from the 'true expression', do you have any?

Isn't it Cuilleron who's claimed that in earlier days most Condrieu was sweet?

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jeff Connell:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by MarkS:
this wine begs the question:
Aieeeeee.
Actually it answers the question - at least as well as any other wine bearing that label these days. As for Eric, we regard him as a peasant.

Sorry to hear about the Beaucastel. I would have thought that wine would be holding better.

I don't want to speak for everyone here, but Eric is far from a demi-god, he's just a man. A man who has been doing really admirable work lately. I wouldn't call Eric a peasant, I would call him a punk.

If fact, I would take the following:

originally posted by MarkS:
Texier, Condrieu, 'Janrode', 2005
I know this man is treated by this board as a minor demi-god, but this wine begs the question: "What is Condrieu?" I look to Condrieu for wines with a flamboyant nose, and a fleshy body, perhaps even something with curves on its frame. Here we have a wine which, by admission, is well made, ...but not Conrieu. The nose is muted, with a lemon honeysuckle bent along with tickseed. Tastes more like a Friulian white than something made with viognier. Weird. Where's the exotic fruit and richness? Heady lemon and lime oils in the glass, a bitter almond finish. Has a dull mouthfeel despite having good acidity. For $40+, a pass. 12.5% B+

and expand on what Jeff wrote above. This may be Condrieu as it should be. The very ripe, fat, and to my palate flat and gross style of Condrieu might be an artifact of a particular point in time when a style emerged as seemingly commercially viable to the expense of a truer expression of Condrieu.

I base this on the fact that I find most Condrieu disgusting and I like Eric's quite a bit. Maybe not enough to purchase it, but I do enjoy drinking it.

Sharon or Monkey-Man or Coad,

I said I like it rich and exotic, not gross and flat tasting. I'm reminded of a Villard 2004 I had last year that was oozing with elegance and a nose that made you feel you were in a Southern garden in springtime, with heady floralness and a little wantonness that (more than openly) hints "I'm yours. Ravish me". Sadly, I've had more disappointments here than many other areas, and yet I've always loved viognier. Of course, there have only been a few which have ever moved me.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM

and expand on what Jeff wrote above. This may be Condrieu as it should be. The very ripe, fat, and to my palate flat and gross style of Condrieu might be an artifact of a particular point in time when a style emerged as seemingly commercially viable to the expense of a truer expression of Condrieu.

I base this on the fact that I find most Condrieu disgusting and I like Eric's quite a bit. Maybe not enough to purchase it, but I do enjoy drinking it.

So you say, Narcissius?

I agree with you in that I find many current Condrieu ponderous, but I'm not sure how you get from "I don't like it" to "an artifact of a particular point in time when a style emerged as seemingly commercially viable to the expense of a truer expression of Condrieu".

I've never had any wine from before this purported style change away from the 'true expression', do you have any?

You left out "might be" of course.

Chateau Grillet?

My early experiences were dominated by this heavy style and that seemed to become the archetype.

That point in time came in the late eighties to mid-nineties when Condrieu was hardly a big seller in the states and a particular critic with some influence wen on to promote a particular style. This greatly affected the business I was in because people came in and asked for these wines where they wouldn't have before. These items sold, so more were produced in a style that was comparable.

It may be that my experience was somehow unique, but I doubt it.
 
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jeff Connell:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by MarkS:
this wine begs the question:
Aieeeeee.
Actually it answers the question - at least as well as any other wine bearing that label these days. As for Eric, we regard him as a peasant.

Sorry to hear about the Beaucastel. I would have thought that wine would be holding better.

I don't want to speak for everyone here, but Eric is far from a demi-god, he's just a man. A man who has been doing really admirable work lately. I wouldn't call Eric a peasant, I would call him a punk.

If fact, I would take the following:

originally posted by MarkS:
Texier, Condrieu, 'Janrode', 2005
I know this man is treated by this board as a minor demi-god, but this wine begs the question: "What is Condrieu?" I look to Condrieu for wines with a flamboyant nose, and a fleshy body, perhaps even something with curves on its frame. Here we have a wine which, by admission, is well made, ...but not Conrieu. The nose is muted, with a lemon honeysuckle bent along with tickseed. Tastes more like a Friulian white than something made with viognier. Weird. Where's the exotic fruit and richness? Heady lemon and lime oils in the glass, a bitter almond finish. Has a dull mouthfeel despite having good acidity. For $40+, a pass. 12.5% B+

and expand on what Jeff wrote above. This may be Condrieu as it should be. The very ripe, fat, and to my palate flat and gross style of Condrieu might be an artifact of a particular point in time when a style emerged as seemingly commercially viable to the expense of a truer expression of Condrieu.

I base this on the fact that I find most Condrieu disgusting and I like Eric's quite a bit. Maybe not enough to purchase it, but I do enjoy drinking it.

Sharon or Monkey-Man or Coad,

I said I like it rich and exotic, not gross and flat tasting. I'm reminded of a Villard 2004 I had last year that was oozing with elegance and a nose that made you feel you were in a Southern garden in springtime, with heady floralness and a little wantonness that (more than openly) hints "I'm yours. Ravish me". Sadly, I've had more disappointments here than many other areas, and yet I've always loved viognier. Of course, there have only been a few which have ever moved me.

I don't have a lot of fondness for viognier, precisely because I have generally found it to be heavy and ponderous. I have had other examples that I've enjoyed from Culleron, Villard, and Perret. I don't ever buy the stuff so I don't taste much anymore. I like Eric's because the style came as a complete and pleasant surprise.

Maybe this is what Condrieu should be. FWIW, B+ seems about right.
 
I'm still not sure that I can identify more than anecdotal evidence that there was a certain stylistic shift taken in Condrieu. I like the wines of Niero and Pichon much more than those from comparable vintages from Guigal, Gangloff, Villard, Cuilleron (some) and others we might see more often. I find Cuilleron to be a mixed bag - some are nice, others not so.

Is Condrieu with RS "correct"? Should it go through Malo? Be light, dry and crisp with minerals and minimal oaking? Or a heavy wine with new oak? I'm not sure I'm in a position to call any of them "classic" or "correct". I know what I like, but I'm only one vote.

I just can't make the logical jump to a certain style being "correct", just as I still can't identify what is "correct" in St. Joseph or Hermitage.

Maybe I'm just not dogmatic enough.
 
originally posted by mlawton:


I just can't make the logical jump to a certain style being "correct", just as I still can't identify what is "correct" in St. Joseph or Hermitage.
Oh, hell, those are much easier.

Easier to care about, too.
 
I just can't make the logical jump to a certain style being "correct", just as I still can't identify what is "correct" in St. Joseph or Hermitage.

White, blend of M and R, raised in old oak, textural rather than aromatic (not to say they aren't) wines.
 
I still can't get my head around "correct" in an absolute sense. "Correct" for me to purchase, sure - that's an easy concept. But lots of people think Guigal is the model for Cote Rotie. Or Jaboulet for Hermitage. I'm not sure they are wrong in an absolute sense, they certainly are not wrong in the Steve P. sense - but for my personal consumption, they are mis-directed.

If all Condrieu was to taste like new oak, I can't see myself passing judgement on whether it was right or wrong - I'd just stop buying it. Just like when I tasted at the Delas table and all 3 wines tasted the same (Cote Rotie, Hermitage, Crozes). My conclusion was that maybe that's simply the way wines from Delas are supposed to taste, and I just won't buy any. I guess it works for them, but it didn't work for me. That's all.
 
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