Cabernet Franc

C

Cory Cartwright

Cory Cartwright
1999 Joguet Clos de la Dioterie: Wood, acid, and nothing else. Cook with or dump.

2006 C&P Breton Franc de Pied: This is what I was looking for when I decided to open cab franc. Reductive at first but then it opened up into something pure and gorgeous. There's something about this producer that gets cab franc in a way that others don't. I think there is better expressions occasionally, but nothing gutshots me in quite the same way.

Also my blog was in The Pour today so I'm congratulating myself. Read here.
 
Any thoughts on longevity of the Breton Franc de Pieds? I've got a bottle of the 05 which I was going to break into recently until I saw that it was under real cork, which made me less in a hurry to get to it.

Congrats about the shout out in the Times. I think that the recent trend in both France and Italy of the designer VDT is an example of there being an alternative to the limitations of the AOC systems. The fact that our heros (Puzelat, Brun, the list goes on...) can make the same money (nearly?)on a VDT (with a story) as they would have had their wines made appelation requirements. It is not the kiss of death that it once was.

Cheers,

Kevin
 
Not a clue about the longevity, but if I had another bottle of this and I accidentally drank it I souldn't mind one bit.

It is really nice to see producers risk a lot and remove the AOC instead of bowing to pressure to make wines according to someone elses dictates. I think this will be especiallly important in Spain, where the system seems badly broken.
 
Puzelat and Brun have established franchises and are well known names. Not so easy for young Yvette or Pierre just starting out.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Puzelat and Brun have established franchises and are well known names. Not so easy for young Yvette or Pierre just starting out.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and I wouldn't disagree with you for one second, but at least the precedent has been set. Wine with a VDT label can be sold for more than a Euro/L. Not easy for a newcomer, but it can be done.
 
Recently tried both the Breton and Baudry franc de pieds and like the latter better. Have to retry the Breton... Congrats on the blog plug (plog?).
 
The Baudry is beautiful wine as well., but I understand he lost a lot of vines to phylloxera recently. Haven't been able to confirm that 100%, but a small tragedy if true.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
planted in the wrong soil
Click to expand...

You make it sound as though it were a mistake, whereas it was a knowing gamble. A losing one, but a knowing one.

I wonder what possible tactics one could actually take in our times to prevent phylloxera. Where does it come from? How does it get there? Are American roots still lousy with it all over?
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by SFJoe:
planted in the wrong soil
Click to expand...

You make it sound as though it were a mistake, whereas it was a knowing gamble. A losing one, but a knowing one.

I wonder what possible tactics one could actually take in our times to prevent phylloxera. Where does it come from? How does it get there? Are American roots still lousy with it all over?
Click to expand...
Am I a louse, to know such things?

Well, it's a gamble in the sense that you don't know exactly when it will happen, but it's when not if. So it's a lot of work planting vines, knowing that you will only have a few vintages. I remember standing in Chavignol with a small proprietor looking up at the Monts Damns. He said, "well, it's easy for Didier Dagueneau to plant franc de pied up there, he has someone else doing his vineyard work!"

I don't think anyone has a clue right now to prevent phylloxera. It is established all over. Recall that most of Napa had to be replanted recently because they had an inadequate hybrid rootstock that was a bit too European. If you drive up through the valley, you'd be amazed at all the young vines. Planted in bottomland. Making $100/bottle crap wine. Oh, wait, that's a different thread.

But if I were in charge of the campaign to bring back real roots and to vanquish phylloxera, I'd probably be looking in the direction of GMO vines. Of course, that's just me.
 
I wonder why no one has gone the GMO route, actually. You raise a good question.

Time to scoop up those Bossard vineyards and give it a whirl.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I wonder what possible tactics one could actually take in our times to prevent phylloxera. Where does it come from? How does it get there? Are American roots still lousy with it all over?
Click to expand...

These pages summarize it reasonably well:

one

another

The approach to remedies has been centered on the vines. I wonder if a better approach might instead
try to GMO the bug? They live a fairly complex life cycle, couldn't that be disrupted or modified through
introducing bugs that have had their toxin altered to be harmless, or something like that?

We hate to see vines having to be compromised, can we compromise the bug, or is that selective
self serving use of a problematic practice (GMO) that Europeans would not allow?
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I wonder what possible tactics one could actually take in our times to prevent phylloxera. Where does it come from? How does it get there? Are American roots still lousy with it all over?
Click to expand...

These pages summarize it reasonably well:

one

another

The approach to remedies has been centered on the vines. I wonder if a better approach might instead
try to GMO the bug? They live a fairly complex life cycle, couldn't that be disrupted or modified through
introducing bugs that have had their toxin altered to be harmless, or something like that?

We hate to see vines having to be compromised, can we compromise the bug, or is that selective
self serving use of a problematic practice (GMO) that Europeans would not allow?
Click to expand...
I'm no expert, but the generic problem is that if you compromise your bug, how does it compete with all the wild bugs?
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I wonder what possible tactics one could actually take in our times to prevent phylloxera. Where does it come from? How does it get there? Are American roots still lousy with it all over?
Click to expand...

These pages summarize it reasonably well:

one

another

The approach to remedies has been centered on the vines. I wonder if a better approach might instead
try to GMO the bug? They live a fairly complex life cycle, couldn't that be disrupted or modified through
introducing bugs that have had their toxin altered to be harmless, or something like that?

We hate to see vines having to be compromised, can we compromise the bug, or is that selective
self serving use of a problematic practice (GMO) that Europeans would not allow?
Click to expand...

There's got to be a smallpox and whiskey joke around here somewhere...
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I'm no expert, but the generic problem is that if you compromise your bug, how does it compete with all the wild bugs?
Click to expand...

This would matter how?

originally posted by Kevin Roberts:

There's got to be a smallpox and whiskey joke around here somewhere...
Click to expand...

Because...?

I'm not advocating any particular thing, I'm just posing a few questions. What has been done up to now (grafting) could be argued as being the least bad solution. It also has the benefit of no serious unintended consequences. We're lucky it's worked to the extent that it has. At the same time it's unsatisfying and frustrating.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by SFJoe:
I'm no expert, but the generic problem is that if you compromise your bug, how does it compete with all the wild bugs?
Click to expand...

This would matter how?
Click to expand...

If the point of modifying the bug is to eradicate the wild type, your modified bug had best be at least as successful because otherwise it won't compete in the wild. Do you remember the folks trying to eradicate the Medfly in CA by introducing sterile mutants? The problem is that the few fertile remnants propogate, so eventually overwhelm the sterile mutants.

I'm not advocating any particular thing, I'm just posing a few questions. What has been done up to now (grafting) could be argued as being the least bad solution. It also has the benefit of no serious unintended consequences. We're lucky it's worked to the extent that it has. At the same time it's unsatisfying and frustrating.
Click to expand...

One unintended consequence is the change in the character of the wines produced from grafted vines. Several on this board have made the statement that grafted vines are more vigorous and produce wines of higher alcohol (and possibly less grace) than their Franc de Pied counterparts. I expect more commentary on this subject after Levi's big tasting.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
Cabernet Franc1999 Joguet Clos de la Dioterie: Wood, acid, and nothing else. Cook with or dump.
Click to expand...
Had this a few months back. It sucked.

Thanks for the note on the Breton though, I will look out for that (as I really loved the Baudry Franc de pied some time ago).
 
Some of the difference between franc de pied and grafted vines could probably be altered by a different choice of rootstock. But your average nursery is mostly looking for stability, yield, and so on. Delicacy and low alcohol at ripeness and etc. are not in the top rank of commercial concerns. So a determined search, or a wider commercial availability of less vigorous rootstock could maybe approximate franc de pied.

But I'm making all this up, and the real answers are out there.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
One unintended consequence is the change in the character of the wines produced from grafted vines. Several on this board have made the statement that grafted vines are more vigorous and produce wines of higher alcohol (and possibly less grace) than their Franc de Pied counterpart
Mark Lipton
Click to expand...

I suppose it goes to how you define serious. I said serious unintended consequences. Most, if not almost all, of French wine production from the 20th century has been from from grafted wines. Throughout France. The vast majority of French wines you've had in your life were from grafted vines.

I get it. I know grafted vines are less than ideal. But come on. Do I really have to defend 100+ years of grafting? I'm not here to do that, but, vinifera production in France would no longer exist, in any meaningful way, if not for grafting.

I would love nothing more than a defeat of Phylloxera and a return vinifera varieties to their own roots.

And, it's a bummer to hear that the 1999 Joguet Clos de la Dioterie sucked.
 
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