What's going on with Jobard and premox?

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BJ
I've had a number of Jobard from the late 90s and every one had problems with premox. Advanced, uric, just not nice. Some certainly better than others.

The other day, the 00 Blagny Piece Sous le Bois rouge: I had looked forward to it all day, and it was just toast - maybe how this wine should taste in 2025. Very advanced.

What's up? This is all KL stuff, and from different sources.
 
Just to clarify: I am thinking from the KL reference that we are talking Francois Jobard (not Remi), right?

I have had a number of premox issues with Francois Jobard in the past. I think this may have been mentioned around these parts before.
 
i had my last magnum of 1997 francois jobard meursault genevrieres (sp?) last year and it was on song, full of life, and no pre-mox or prem-ox or premo-x to be found anywhere.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Yes. I have had many (too many) F. Jobards.

Rmi isn't good, either. But actually less offensive.
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Fair enough. I have never found the wines excessively oaky.
 
Whatever she's tasting, I don't think it's new oak. 15% new at this estate, and wines are left in cask until just before the second harvest. (And remember, she's in love with Selosse et al.)

One of Jobard's longtime importers tells me that he's had problems with premox from Jobard for +/-20 years; another says there's never been any problem and Jobard is the exception that proves the rule on premox. I will say that the wines can go through a very difficult period when they are asleep. OTOH, with the importer who claims longtime premox problems with Jobard, about three years ago I did experience a ruined 1991 Meursault-Blagny 1er cru (but I think Jobard had other issues from the late 1980s through the early/mid-1990s).
 
I tend to think that the Meursaults of Francois Jobard show less oak influence than those of Coche-Dury, although Sharon seems to disagree.
 
Sometimes it's nice just to sip a simple but delicious cool, young St-Romain rouge and listen to Mulligan and Desmond together from many decades past and not worry about the culture wars in wine or anywhere else.
 
Sometimes, when a craftsperson's work is dismissed as soulless and indifferent, it is nice to defend the reputation of that work against slander, while acknowledging faults that may exist.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Sometimes, when a craftsperson's work is dismissed as soulless and indifferent, it is nice to defend the reputation of that work against slander, while acknowledging faults that may exist.
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Meaning?

Look, I'm on record for what I think of Franois (and now Antoine) Jobard's wines going back a quarter of a century, and that's based both on repeated visits to the estate and drinking the wines over here, too. I still think they taste great when I see them at the estate. I think that Sharon is off the track, but each to his or her own opinion. For the last several years, I have cellared almost none of Jobard's wines because I cellar virtually no white Burgundy these days (premox and Riesling being the underlying reasons). But I do have enough experience drinking them in Burgundy and elsewhere and going back decades to know that when Jobard's wines are asleep, they can be extremely disappointing, so I don't give a lot of credence to reports from people whom I don't know to have a lot of experience with Jobard's wines. But I am perplexed and more when two of the most knowledgeable people I know with respect to wine, and Burgundy in particular, both of whom have imported Jobard's wines for decades and have abundant experience with them, tell me 180 different experiences with the wines. If you know what I should be thinking about them, I'm all ears (er, eyes), because frankly I'm puzzled and my experiences don't give me enough to incline either way.

So bottom line, I can't say that I see any slander to defend against. If it's a craftsperson's work but is defective, no I don't see anything to defend (especially since I have seen no accusation that it is soulless, just that it is not of quality that appeals to a certain individual).
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Sometimes, when a craftsperson's work is dismissed as soulless and indifferent, it is nice to defend the reputation of that work against slander, while acknowledging faults that may exist.
Click to expand...
Meaning?

Look, I'm on record for what I think of Franois (and now Antoine) Jobard's wines going back a quarter of a century, and that's based both on repeated visits to the estate and drinking the wines over here, too. I still think they taste great when I see them at the estate. I think that Sharon is off the track, but each to his or her own opinion. For the last several years, I have cellared almost none of Jobard's wines because I cellar virtually no white Burgundy these days (premox and Riesling being the underlying reasons). But I do have enough experience drinking them in Burgundy and elsewhere and going back decades to know that when Jobard's wines are asleep, they can be extremely disappointing, so I don't give a lot of credence to reports from people whom I don't know to have a lot of experience with Jobard's wines. But I am perplexed and more when two of the most knowledgeable people I know with respect to wine, and Burgundy in particular, both of whom have imported Jobard's wines for decades and have abundant experience with them, tell me 180 different experiences with the wines. If you know what I should be thinking about them, I'm all ears (er, eyes), because frankly I'm puzzled and my experiences don't give me enough to incline either way.

So bottom line, I can't say that I see any slander to defend against. If it's a craftsperson's work but is defective, no I don't see anything to defend (especially since I have seen no accusation that it is soulless, just that it is not of quality that appeals to a certain individual).
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The accusation of soullness is just above in the thread.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Sometimes, when a craftsperson's work is dismissed as soulless and indifferent, it is nice to defend the reputation of that work against slander, while acknowledging faults that may exist.
Click to expand...
Meaning?

Look, I'm on record for what I think of Franois (and now Antoine) Jobard's wines going back a quarter of a century, and that's based both on repeated visits to the estate and drinking the wines over here, too. I still think they taste great when I see them at the estate. I think that Sharon is off the track, but each to his or her own opinion. For the last several years, I have cellared almost none of Jobard's wines because I cellar virtually no white Burgundy these days (premox and Riesling being the underlying reasons). But I do have enough experience drinking them in Burgundy and elsewhere and going back decades to know that when Jobard's wines are asleep, they can be extremely disappointing, so I don't give a lot of credence to reports from people whom I don't know to have a lot of experience with Jobard's wines. But I am perplexed and more when two of the most knowledgeable people I know with respect to wine, and Burgundy in particular, both of whom have imported Jobard's wines for decades and have abundant experience with them, tell me 180 different experiences with the wines. If you know what I should be thinking about them, I'm all ears (er, eyes), because frankly I'm puzzled and my experiences don't give me enough to incline either way.

So bottom line, I can't say that I see any slander to defend against. If it's a craftsperson's work but is defective, no I don't see anything to defend (especially since I have seen no accusation that it is soulless, just that it is not of quality that appeals to a certain individual).
Click to expand...

The accusation of soullness is just above in the thread.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reference; I had overlooked it. I fail to understand her view that the wines lack soul, just as I fail to understand how anyone can call the wines oaky. I think pointing out that there's only 15% new oak on them discredits the judgment for virtually all, not that most who have tasted Jobard's wines need the underlying facts. But if that's her opinion based on her palate, she's free to hold it; I see no reason to believe that the expression was made in bad faith. In particular, I see no slander (fortunately, even in France, the appellate courts overturned the conviction of the journalist who called most Beaujolais merde). I'm certainly not going to write her opinions off completely just because I sometimes disagree with them.

P.S. - -She's young and learning -- I and many have once been there (and would love to be back at that age again -- with the knowledge that I now have), and I still continue to learn and evolve every day. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that she wanted to marry Cuilleron on account of his St-Joseph.

I have colleagues who give very high marks to the wines of a certain ngoce in Romanche-Thorins whose wines I generally find hideous. Rather than just write these colleagues off, I think it's more valuable to open a dialogue with them about what they see as positive in the wines and why they don't think that this ngoce's wines are absolute rubbish. Maybe there's something that they can show me that they've overlooked, or maybe I can show them something that they've overlooked. (Or alas, sometimes, they just admit that they've got to take that position for commercial reasons, but at least then that's on the table.)
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
P.S. - -She's young and learning -- I and many have once been there (and would love to be back at that age again -- with the knowledge that I now have), and I still continue to learn and evolve every day. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that she wanted to marry Cuilleron on account of his St-Joseph.
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Oh, for fuck's sake.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
P.S. - -She's young and learning -- I and many have once been there (and would love to be back at that age again -- with the knowledge that I now have), and I still continue to learn and evolve every day. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that she wanted to marry Cuilleron on account of his St-Joseph.
Click to expand...

Oh, for fuck's sake.
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OK, she's old and closed-minded. (Sorry, I realize now that it came off as condescending, but it wasn't meant that way.) :)
 
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