sulfur

originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
sulfurSeriously folks, a little can go a long way.
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Cory,
If you have just opened and tasted a wine from Prum, I think I understand.
If not, could you give me a little context for this statement?
Best, Jim
 
It could be that Cory's visiting Natural (not just "natural") producers and wishing for a little less unpredictability. It could also be that he's tasting oversulfured wines. But I have a hunch that it's the former.
 
originally posted by Thor:
It could be that Cory's visiting Natural (not just "natural") producers and wishing for a little less unpredictability.
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'Little help? - the difference between Natural and "natural," please.
Best, Jim
 
Lower-case means producers who try to do as much of the stuff the Natural guys/gals do as they can, but don't bleed rocks if they can't, and aren't inherent joiners or marketers of the concept. Upper-case means producers with a membership card, an oversight committee comprised of their peers, and placement on the shelves and lists of every hipster wine shop, bar, and restaurant in Paris.

Yes, I'm being a dick, but I do believe some greater-than-half portion of the above paragraph.
 
I see.

So what do you think is the appropriate use of sulphur in wine-making, if any?

And not to put you on the spot, I feel that it is often useful, sometimes required and, since I make wine in a facility where other folks are also making wine, I would feel pretty anxious without it.
Best, Jim
 
Enough so that it arrives at its destination intact and has some reasonable chance of surviving to be consumed intact. That might be zero or it might be more, depending on the wine and the destination. I have neither a fetish for, nor a jihad against, nor an allergy to, so I don't require any particular number. I respect winemakers who have reasons for their choices. I have problems with winemakers who are indifferent to the state of their wine once it leaves their cellars. But it's a big world, and there's no lack of options along this continuum.
 
I think it's mostly necessary, but in what amts and when during the processes, I have no idea. Certain rare or unusual wines, like the 15.3% pinot noir vinified blanc and purposely oxidised, vin jaune style I had (and loved) recently may not need it at all....a severe exception, I think. I totally agree with Thor about producers taking responsibility for what can happen in the bottle from winery to store shelves...a winemaker would be shooting themselves in the foot otherwise, or have a seriously hipster rap that people bought hook line and sinker...
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
I totally agree with Thor about producers taking responsibility for what can happen in the bottle from winery to store shelves...a winemaker would be shooting themselves in the foot otherwise, or have a seriously hipster rap that people bought hook line and sinker...
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Yes - hence, Thor's contrast of Natural and "natural."

Curiously, my only exposure to people who talk about those two concepts and their differences is on the wine boards. Not once have I heard it being discussed among the winemakers I know - which may say more about the geographic area they work in then the concepts.
But I suppose these concepts (or portions of them) are part and parcel to the biodynamic/organic movement and some of the other green notions that are going around in Sonoma and other places in CA wine country. When I hear them discussed in that context they seem to be stripped of their hype aspects, ie., people don't talk about them in terms of what will appeal/sell but rather what is theoretically "best" for the vineyards and the wines produced from them.

The idea can be "spun," no doubt, I just don't hear much of that - except here.

Best, Jim
 
Funny, right? Ok, maybe not.
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No, no, it's now absolutely, gut-bustingly hilarious in a way it wasn't before you explained it. Though it would have been even funnier if you'd taken two or three paragraphs to do so.

Curiously, my only exposure to people who talk about those two concepts and their differences is on the wine boards. Not once have I heard it being discussed among the winemakers I know - which may say more about the geographic area they work in then the concepts.
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Until this past week, I would have agreed with you. But almost to a person, the Piedmontese producers who self-identified as "natural" then went on to detail the ways in which they are not like those "natural" types, whoever they are. The cap/no-cap thing is just my personal shorthand for the difference.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
If you turn unsulphured water into wine, does that make it supernatural wine?
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If you turn water into wine, it's a miracle. When it happened in St. John the wine didn't get transported anywhere, so it could have been sans souffre I guess. It is worth noticing that the host specifically complimented the Joshua guy on the quality of his wine. We don't know if the host had a Parker palate or not, though.
 
originally posted by Thor:
Until this past week, I would have agreed with you. But almost to a person, the Piedmontese producers who self-identified as "natural" then went on to detail the ways in which they are not like those "natural" types, whoever they are. The cap/no-cap thing is just my personal shorthand for the difference.
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I'm unclear on the difference(s) here.
Are the big Ns guilty of naivete, some vague idea that good intentions will triumph over the basic physical laws of the universe (they try to "bleed rocks" even if they can't)?
Are they (big Ns) simply doing what they do because they are lured in by the appeal of the Flavor of the Month, operating without serious convictions ("inherent joiners")?
Are they crass business types merely set on commercializing that which they see as a source of easy money ("marketers of the concept")?
Or are they some combination of the three?

Jim seems to be focusing primarily on the 3rd type here when he says "people don't talk about them in terms of what will appeal/sell", and I'd agree with him.... very few people within the group accuse others of just being in it for the money. That's more the kind of thing said by those on the outside looking in.

Cheers,
 
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