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V

VLM

VLM
Never, under any circumstances, disagree with Prof. Loesberg about Chteauneuf-du-Ppe. Especially how vintages will age out.

There has been a discussion about where the 1995 vintage would end up for many years now. Well, I've been on the losing end of all of those, with the possible exception of the Vieux-Tlgraph (where we agreed). Beaucastle, fail. Janasse VV, fail. Pegau, fail.

And now, the wine I had pinned the last of my hopes, and my best ones, the 1995 Clos de Ppes. In it's earlier days, this seemed to be a wine destined for greatness, with richness and complexity, but also structure and lift. IIRC, Prof Loesberg hedged on this one and said it might turn out. Well, it didn't. A shell of it's previous self and an utter disappointment. Chteauneuf-du-Ppe is one of my mothers favorite wines and so I save my remaining bottles to enjoy with her. As the guy who has been like a father to me recently pointed out, I am a shitty son. This was shrill and evaporating texturally and aromatically only of marginal interest.

Well, I've learned my lesson Professor. Any recommendations for deals so that I can have decent Chteauneuf-du-Ppe around for my mom?
 
I hope you are wrong about the Clos des Papes. I've been drinking it since 05 with pleasure. It's always been one of my exceptions. You liked it once when you had it in DC. I haven't had it in a year, though. I'd be sorry to find it had fallen off a cliff. It never suffered from the problem of other 95s o f having closed up never to open, though.

There are a lot of 04 and 06 CdPs that pop up on close-out sales. Keep your eyes open and buy them. The hype about the 07s evidently make retailers want to clear out this wine. Go on Macarthur's website and you'll find lots of reasonably priced CdPs scattered among all the overpriced ones.
 
originally posted by VLM:
Recent lessons
Never, under any circumstances, disagree with Prof. Loesberg about Chteauneuf-du-Ppe. Especially how vintages will age out.

There has been a discussion about where the 1995 vintage would end up for many years now. Well, I've been on the losing end of all of those, with the possible exception of the Vieux-Tlgraph (where we agreed). Beaucastle, fail. Janasse VV, fail. Pegau, fail.

And now, the wine I had pinned the last of my hopes, and my best ones, the 1995 Clos de Ppes. In it's earlier days, this seemed to be a wine destined for greatness, with richness and complexity, but also structure and lift. IIRC, Prof Loesberg hedged on this one and said it might turn out. Well, it didn't. A shell of it's previous self and an utter disappointment. Chteauneuf-du-Ppe is one of my mothers favorite wines and so I save my remaining bottles to enjoy with her. As the guy who has been like a father to me recently pointed out, I am a shitty son. This was shrill and evaporating texturally and aromatically only of marginal interest.

Well, I've learned my lesson Professor. Any recommendations for deals so that I can have decent Chteauneuf-du-Ppe around for my mom?
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Bummer about the Clos des Papes. I'm rather well provisioned with back vintages of Pegau and Beaucastel (also Vieux Telegraphe, but they're off limits). Lemme know if you'd like a bottle or two of any of those.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by SteveTimko:
The 2004s seem to be drinking well already.
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As for Charvin, which was twicely delicious until I opened a 1/2 bottle of the 2004 recently, which seemed like it was closing in upon itself, so I might be tempted to set any of those aside for a few more years.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I hope you are wrong about the Clos des Papes. I've been drinking it since 05 with pleasure. It's always been one of my exceptions. You liked it once when you had it in DC. I haven't had it in a year, though. I'd be sorry to find it had fallen off a cliff. It never suffered from the problem of other 95s o f having closed up never to open, though.
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Well, it was a perfectly stored bottle from Jungenet from the same parcel as the rest of my bottles. There was no apparent flaw and it wasn't closed, just lacking in texture and breadth. All that was left was a garrigue nose.

There are a lot of 04 and 06 CdPs that pop up on close-out sales. Keep your eyes open and buy them. The hype about the 07s evidently make retailers want to clear out this wine. Go on Macarthur's website and you'll find lots of reasonably priced CdPs scattered among all the overpriced ones.
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Should I stick to the same producers I bought in 1995?
 
originally posted by MarkS:
A modest little act of contrition...age (and reason)has softened up our little monkey.
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Not really, it's just that I so rarely have the opportunity for contrition.

[emoticon]
 
originally posted by VLM:
Recent lessons
Never, under any circumstances, disagree with Prof. Loesberg about Chteauneuf-du-Ppe. Especially how vintages will age out.There has been a discussion about where the 1995 vintage would end up for many years now. Well, I've been on the losing end of all of those, with the possible exception of the Vieux-Tlgraph (where we agreed). Beaucastle, fail. Janasse VV, fail. Pegau, fail.

And now, the wine I had pinned the last of my hopes, and my best ones, the 1995 Clos de Ppes. In it's earlier days, this seemed to be a wine destined for greatness, with richness and complexity, but also structure and lift. IIRC, Prof Loesberg hedged on this one and said it might turn out. Well, it didn't. A shell of it's previous self and an utter disappointment...
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I don't have any 95s, but now I'm curious. What precisely is bad about the wines? Is there a particular reason for this, weather-related?
 
Yeah, I must have missed a thread. I have a burgeoning quantity of 95s that have been piling up; am I understand it seems they aren't going to come around at all? I haven't had many pleasant ones but just figured it wasn't time.
 
To VLM, Clos des Papes has gone over slightly to the dark side since 03, not obviously spoofed, but much more stress on concentration. Pegau, Charvin, and Marcoux are all lovely in both 04 and 06. I also like Ferrand in those years. I wasn't buying Pierre Usseglio, but the entry level one (not the bigger pointsy cuvees) are the real thing for a lot less money than most.

On 95 CdPs: some of my and the monkeys favorites, in particular for me Pegau, Beaucastel and Charvin, but others as well, closed down tight for a very long time and never really opened up except as very restrained and austere wines. Pegau now gives more pleasure than it did, but that's not saying much. There have been exceptions to this rule, but given how well everyone thought of the vintage when it came out, there were a lot of disappointments. I'm taking credit for saying this early. I was alerted when my Beaucastel started reminding me of the 78, which never came around entirely. But Laurence Feraud and Laurent Charvin both expressed reservations about the vintage to me early on, which gave me confidence. Laurent let me taste his 95 a couple of years ago, which he had thought had come around nicely.And it had come around nicely, but even by his criteria for his wines--which are good ones as far as I'm concerned--it isn't his best wine.
 
On 04s and 06s I like, I'd add Mourre du Tendre (the 06 isn't released yet, but I liked it when I tasted it with the Paumels). You can't get them in the US, but mentioning them when I can is part of my campaign to get some importer to pick them up.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
On 04s and 06s I like, I'd add Mourre du Tendre (the 06 isn't released yet, but I liked it when I tasted it with the Paumels). You can't get them in the US, but mentioning them when I can is part of my campaign to get some importer to pick them up.
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Mourre du Tendre has always been on my radar, very good wines. When did Weygant stop bringing them in?

Might this be a good victim for Joe?
 
Mourre du Tendre is superb stuff. Their Cotes du Rhone is probably the best I've had, along with St. Anne.
 
originally posted by VLM:
Recent lessons
Never, under any circumstances, disagree with Prof. Loesberg about Chteauneuf-du-Ppe. Especially how vintages will age out.

There has been a discussion about where the 1995 vintage would end up for many years now. Well, I've been on the losing end of all of those, with the possible exception of the Vieux-Tlgraph (where we agreed). Beaucastle, fail. Janasse VV, fail. Pegau, fail.

And now, the wine I had pinned the last of my hopes, and my best ones, the 1995 Clos de Ppes. In it's earlier days, this seemed to be a wine destined for greatness, with richness and complexity, but also structure and lift. IIRC, Prof Loesberg hedged on this one and said it might turn out. Well, it didn't. A shell of it's previous self and an utter disappointment. Chteauneuf-du-Ppe is one of my mothers favorite wines and so I save my remaining bottles to enjoy with her. As the guy who has been like a father to me recently pointed out, I am a shitty son. This was shrill and evaporating texturally and aromatically only of marginal interest.

Well, I've learned my lesson Professor. Any recommendations for deals so that I can have decent Chteauneuf-du-Ppe around for my mom?
Click to expand...

I have also had this last week and was neither moved in any way by, nor inspired to write anything about it. I have had a similar experience with the 1990.
 
Certainly he accepts gratuitous quantities of free grenache (it would be fine if it was poulsard, but grenache...), and also French translations of German philosophers' texts, and to then turn around and say negative things about the wines on the internet is just gosh-darn rude. On the other hand, to say negative things about the philosophers is an ethical gray area.
 
I would love to attend anything paid for by anybody at which there was wine given to me for free. And, since I'm not in the business, I have no business ethics to be compromised and will shill shamelessly in return for the privilege. In fact, I avoid saying bad things about the wine of people whose domaines I visit, if I like the people, without compensation of any sort. I don't necessarily, however, try to get their wine imported.

Mourre du Tendre, as far as I can tell, hasn't been imported into the US since their 01 vintage. I'd love it if Joe would pick them up. I'm happy to arrange for them to meet when I'm there in July, but I hardly think he needs me for this.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I would love to attend anything paid for by anybody at which there was wine given to me for free. And, since I'm not in the business, I have no business ethics to be compromised and will shill shamelessly in return for the privilege. In fact, I avoid saying bad things about the wine of people whose domaines I visit, if I like the people, without compensation of any sort. I don't necessarily, however, try to get there wine imported.

Mourre du Tendre, as far as I can tell, hasn't been imported into the US since their 01 vintage. I'd love it if Joe would pick them up. I'm happy to arrange for them to meet when I'm there in July, but I hardly think he needs me for this.
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That's really a splendid idea.
 
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