Tempier?

S

SteveTimko

Steve Timko
I'm surprised to hear anything less than enthusiasm for Tempier.
I understand it can be a good winemaker without producing great wines. But I've had some magnificent Tempier from all three single vineyard bottlings.
Can I get input on what people do or do not like about Tempier?
 
Count me as a big fan. Still tops in the AOC to me. Granted, I sell the stuff, well the couple of cases that allocated to me each year, anyway.
 
I think the wines are basically brilliant.

The white is not anything I seek out but I have no complaints.

The rose is my favorite rose. I suck it up and shell out for a couple of bottles every summer.

I pass on the Cabassaou due to price and the fact that I actually don't like it any more than the others. I mostly buy the Migoa and the base wine and think they stack up well in their price brackets on an absolute level.

Due to Tempier I have more Bandol in the cellar than any other appellation in S France.

I hear complaints that the wines have been "modernized" but the only thing that I can tell that Daniel Ravier has done (and the only thing he claims to have done) is clean up the cellar and replace the foudre that were in the worst shape. Having Tempier retain it's character but not be as much of a brett bomb any more is not a bad thing in my book.

Additionally, an 86 Tourtine a while back was all that.
 
I've been buying them for 30 years and visiting about every year or three since 1991 (actually, my first visit was in 1985, but it was a non-professional visit; I only began my newsletter the following year). 1970 is the oldest that I know. I have a preference for the older style, but I think the current style is still very, very good, even if a little riper than I would prefer. The ros is not necessarily easy to appreciate (I didn't appreciate it for what it is for a long time), but in the right vintage (e.g., 2007), it is magnificent. Prices have jumped because the market these days places a high premium on being the biggest name or two in an appellation. As a result, it is not the best value in Bandol, but there is the track record to justify the prices. In fact, the current wines are decent or better value when compared to other wines outside Bandol of similar quality.
 
originally posted by Josh Beck:

I hear complaints that the wines have been "modernized" but the only thing that I can tell that Daniel Ravier has done (and the only thing he claims to have done) is clean up the cellar and replace the foudre that were in the worst shape.
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Not so. In the old days, once the picking began, they would go straight through. Now they wait to pick each plot at its "optimum" ripeness. That new picking methodology plus climate change mean that the wines have jumped up in alcohol. As a result, Ravier is quite upfront is saying that he doesn't know if the wines will age as well as the old Tempiers.

For current vintages, because of the replacement of old casks, there is more new wood on the wines than in the past, although I think that it will burn off with a few years' aging. Once the replacements have been completed, however, there will not be the oak overlay that for the moment exists on the new wines.

There also has been experimentation with the magnificent Stockinger casks. Daniel Ravier, as I, was delighted with the results, but he told me that both Franois and Jean-Marie Peyraud were less enthusiastic.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

Not so. In the old days, once the picking began, they would go straight through. Now they wait to pick each plot at its "optimum" ripeness. That new picking methodology plus climate change mean that the wines have jumped up in alcohol. As a result, Ravier is quite upfront is saying that he doesn't know if the wines will age as well as the old Tempiers.
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Heard the same bit about climate change, didn't know the specifics of picking dates. Thx for the info. While they're perhaps a touch riper I have no complaints with ripeness in the 01, 04,05,06,07 or 08 Tempier wines I have drunk or tasted. No experience with 02 or 03.

There also has been experimentation with the magnificent Stockinger casks. Daniel Ravier, as I, was delighted with the results, but he told me that both Franois and Jean-Marie Peyraud were less enthusiastic.
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Do you mind expanding on this?
 
Stockinger is a superb barrel maker in Austria. In particular, his casks go magnificently with southern French/Rhne grapes (and Oliver McCrum seems to think with many Italian grapes, too, but I don't have the experience). My friend, the UK importer Roy Richards of Richards-Walford, has gotten many of his producers to use Stockinger casks, notably Grard Gauby and Rmy Pedrino of Roc d'Anglade; if memory serves correctly, they're also being used at Mas Jullien.
 
I've tasted through releases the last few years and they are definitely more modern, ripe and fleshy. I know some Tempier diehards who feel the wines are no longer special as they were. Me, I think they are still very good. I find the older wines hit or miss. I've had some great ones. I've had some closed or simply too dirty. I won't be surprised to see the current wines to age well. Mourvedre makes long lived wines, and let's be clear, even newer Tempier aren't really new worldy. And I'll be the first to admit that some of the 15 to 20 year old wines that seemed overly hard and tight were still simply too young. Thanks Claude for details on what's been changing in the cellars. I had a conversation with Ravier here in Portland a few years ago and found him to be quite interesting and the wines ('04s I think) quite good.
 
Yeah, more modern and ripe of late...Vincent, you must be talking about Marshall...but I have to agree with him for now..

I like Daniel and will probably revisit the wines in a few years when the oak is back to normal.

I prefer the aromas from Migoua, the palate and overall complexity of Tourtine, and the density of Cabassaou....but I like them as single vineyards.

When I used to buy them...I went for Tourtine....and I still have quite a few of them...

-mark
 
Mark, I was probably thinking of you too! Seriously, the wines are different but I suspect they'll age better than people (Marshall at least) think. Oak "absorbing" and all that. (Does that really happen?) I fully understand that some people are off the wagon, at least for now. I have an eyebrow raised, but knowing the grape and the terroir, I won't bet against them.
 
originally posted by Vincent Fritzsche:
Mark, I was probably thinking of you too! Seriously, the wines are different but I suspect they'll age better than people (Marshall at least) think. Oak "absorbing" and all that. (Does that really happen?) I fully understand that some people are off the wagon, at least for now. I have an eyebrow raised, but knowing the grape and the terroir, I won't bet against them.
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Recently discovered a mixed case of '82s...Migoua and Tourtine buried in the far reaches of my cellar.A couple, believe it or not, literally had no corks! They had disintegrated! I opened one of the remaining bottles and although the fill was shoulder level, the wine was still good. As a matter of fact, very good. I remember trying some in the early '90s that tasted as if they were undergoing a secondary fermentation. I called Kermit Lynch and he said to be patient. Damned if he wasn't right!

Marshall
 
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