A Couple of Saturday Night Wines

[Matt Latuchie]

After we closed up the shop, Tim, his wife Megan and our buddy Jeremy walked across the street to Medium Rare. We opened up a couple wines and had a fun Saturday night with some great wines.

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
Decanted this for about 90 minutes before dinner. Nose had nice fresh scents of citrus, melon, peach and smokey minerals. Palate is incredibly taut and energetic...sadly lacking much in the way of interesting flavors. It has subtle peach and herb tones, but I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

1997 Thunder Mountain Cabernet Sauvignon Beauregard Ranch
Another wonderful bottle of Thunder Mountain Cabernet. Nose is full of eucalyptus, peppers, dark fruit and smokey minerals. I continue to love these Thunder Mountain wines...restrained and elegant with focused dark fruit, cedar, shredded tobacco and spices. Thunder Mountain continues to be a favorite California cabernet producer for me...great stuff.

1989 Pierre Gonon St. Joseph Les Oliviers
Popped and poured. Had just a lovely, rustic syrah nose of black olive, cured meats, dark fruit and spices. A very powerful nose, with a more reserved, elegant palate. The black olive note was pronounced on the palate with lilacs, and a beef broth tone to it. Just lovely, magical stuff that's drinking very well.

2001 Carl Schmitt-Wagner Longuicher Maximiner Herrenberg Riesling Auslese #14
Great auslese with fresh, light floral and mineral tones on the nose and palate. Has rich tones on the nose with a featherweight palate - an intriguing combination. There was a subtle honey and peach flavor on the palate with great minerality, acid and balance. Another great bottle from Carl Schmitt-Wagner.

 

[Brian C]

1989 Pierre Gonon St. Joseph Les Oliviers

My one bottle was corked. grrrrrrr.

 

[Rahsaan]

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

Maybe I'm missing something in your definition of tertiary, but why would you be expecting 'aged' flavors in such a young wine from such a big year?

 

[Matt Latuchie]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

Maybe I'm missing something in your definition of tertiary, but why would you be expecting 'aged' flavors in such a young wine from such a big year?

i don't equate tertiary flavors to aged flavors...but rather to undertones that give a wine complexity and layers of flavors. this alzinger was relatively straightforward, so i didn't feel it has this depth of flavor.

 

[kirk wallace]

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

Maybe I'm missing something in your definition of tertiary, but why would you be expecting 'aged' flavors in such a young wine from such a big year?

i don't equate tertiary flavors to aged flavors...but rather to undertones that give a wine complexity and layers of flavors. this alzinger was relatively straightforward, so i didn't feel it has this depth of flavor.

I'd say try it again in 10 years.

 

[Yule Kim]

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

Maybe I'm missing something in your definition of tertiary, but why would you be expecting 'aged' flavors in such a young wine from such a big year?

i don't equate tertiary flavors to aged flavors...but rather to undertones that give a wine complexity and layers of flavors. this alzinger was relatively straightforward, so i didn't feel it has this depth of flavor.

My understanding was "primary" usually refers to fruit flavors, "secondary" refers to cellar treatment, like oak flavors, and "tertiary" refers to flavors that come about because of age.

At least, that is what Wikipedia says. I remember looking it up after reading posts on the various boreds referring to "tertiary" and "primary" flavors. I am still not sure what "secondary" refers to, unless it just means oak barrel flavors.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Yule Kim:

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

Maybe I'm missing something in your definition of tertiary, but why would you be expecting 'aged' flavors in such a young wine from such a big year?

i don't equate tertiary flavors to aged flavors...but rather to undertones that give a wine complexity and layers of flavors. this alzinger was relatively straightforward, so i didn't feel it has this depth of flavor.

My understanding was "primary" usually refers to fruit flavors, "secondary" refers to cellar treatment, like oak flavors, and "tertiary" refers to flavors that come about because of age.

At least, that is what Wikipedia says. I remember looking it up after reading posts on the various boreds referring to "tertiary" and "primary" flavors. I am still not sure what "secondary" refers to, unless it just means oak barrel flavors.

Correct, a young wine cannot have tertiary flavors, unless it is put through one of those magnetic devices advertised on airplane magazines that age wine instantly.

 

[Matt Latuchie]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Yule Kim:

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

Maybe I'm missing something in your definition of tertiary, but why would you be expecting 'aged' flavors in such a young wine from such a big year?

i don't equate tertiary flavors to aged flavors...but rather to undertones that give a wine complexity and layers of flavors. this alzinger was relatively straightforward, so i didn't feel it has this depth of flavor.

My understanding was "primary" usually refers to fruit flavors, "secondary" refers to cellar treatment, like oak flavors, and "tertiary" refers to flavors that come about because of age.

At least, that is what Wikipedia says. I remember looking it up after reading posts on the various boreds referring to "tertiary" and "primary" flavors. I am still not sure what "secondary" refers to, unless it just means oak barrel flavors.

Correct, a young wine cannot have tertiary flavors, unless it is put through one of those magnetic devices advertised on airplane magazines that age wine instantly.

thanks for the clarification. it appears that i've been using it incorrectly.

cheers!

 

[John M]

originally posted by Matt Latuchie:

2006 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Hohereck
Decanted this for about 90 minutes before dinner. Nose had nice fresh scents of citrus, melon, peach and smokey minerals. Palate is incredibly taut and energetic...sadly lacking much in the way of interesting flavors. It has subtle peach and herb tones, but I didn't get the tertiary flavors that I was anticipating. Oh well.

Last night we had the 2019 Alzinger Riesling Ried Höhereck Smaragd and absolutely loved it. It even lived up to some of Terry Theise's descriptions from earlier vintages. For example, about the 2018: "[It] has its spells and angles and salts and roasts and smokes and incenses." While I really don't know what exactly he meant by all this, I understand the enthusiasm.

Since this thread seems to contain the only comments on this board about the Höhereck, with the muted description above and a drift into semantics, I felt obliged to provide a counterpoint. I'm guessing the bottle described above was just in an awkward moment.

 

[robert ames]

regardless of the reasons for of his disappearance from the wine world, i miss terry theise's writings. a lot. he brought a unique way of approaching, understanding, and reacting to the wine in the glass--and the people that whose labors brought it to fruition.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by robert ames:
regardless of the reasons for of his disappearance from the wine world, i miss terry theise's writings. a lot. he brought a unique way of approaching, understanding, and reacting to the wine in the glass--and the people that whose labors brought it to fruition.

Terry is still writing notes at https://www.terrytheise.com/tasting-notes

 

[Zachary Ross]

originally posted by robert ames:
regardless of the reasons for of his disappearance from the wine world, i miss terry theise's writings. a lot. he brought a unique way of approaching, understanding, and reacting to the wine in the glass--and the people that whose labors brought it to fruition.

What are the reasons for his disappearance?

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Zachary Ross:

originally posted by robert ames:
regardless of the reasons for of his disappearance from the wine world, i miss terry theise's writings. a lot. he brought a unique way of approaching, understanding, and reacting to the wine in the glass--and the people that whose labors brought it to fruition.

What are the reasons for his disappearance?

terry was summarily and unceremoniously relieved of his duties at skurnik i guess a couple years ago. i have only heard rumours and have nothing concrete to offer and will leave it at that.

 

[Odd Rydland]

Thanks for the link. There are now a few bottles of Gimmonet in my cellar.

 

[John M]

originally posted by Odd Rydland:
Thanks for the link. There are now a few bottles of Gimmonet in my cellar.

I too was inspired by TT's notes, although I bought some Schloss Gobelsburg.

 

[Odd Rydland]

originally posted by John M:

originally posted by Odd Rydland:
Thanks for the link. There are now a few bottles of Gimmonet in my cellar.

I too was inspired by TT's notes, although I bought some Schloss Gobelsburg.

Great fan of Gobelsburg; really some of the best QPR around. Being from Norway I have visited a couple of times (Austria isn't that far away), and they really also are some of the best wine people around.

Covid willing and being fully vaccinated, I'll be in Wachau for a week in late August. A wonderful spot on earth.

But as warming takes it toll, I tend to think that wines in the best locations in vintages the Austrians themselves seem to promote as the best, increasingly and unfortunately, are too big. Seek out the cooler vintages, the early pickers and the cooler vineyards. Like TT I seem to prefer Renner to Lamm, traditionally considered the lesser (a less favorable exposition) vineyard of the two.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Odd Rydland:

originally posted by John M:

originally posted by Odd Rydland:
Thanks for the link. There are now a few bottles of Gimmonet in my cellar.

But as warming takes it toll, I tend to think that wines in the best locations in vintages the Austrians themselves seem to promote as the best, increasingly and unfortunately, are too big. Seek out the cooler vintages, the early pickers and the cooler vineyards.

Completely agree. In fact, I almost always avoid Lamm and smaragd level from the Wachau. For example, Nigl’s Senftenberg vineyards are often cooler and the lower level wines nice and snappy.