? Charvin CndP

D

drssouth

Stephen South
Not overly familiar with this producer....
2005 Domaine Charvin Chateauneuf-du-Pape, alc 14.5%...bought at release... cork looks and smells fine.... a bit light colored...nose is squeaky clean and fruity...palate could be any $10 generic red wine, tastes "grapey" and simple....
how could this be this generic???
WTF??

Moved on to a 2007 Domaine de la Janasse Chaupin CndP.....also modern style but some leather and iron and interest....a bit on the sweeter side but it is young...not really any garrigue but at least gives pleasure...
not very tannic despite it's youth....a marked departure from the '98 and '99 that I found to be enjoyable

sold most of my Janasse but this is an "orphan" bottle that I missed...
 
originally posted by drssouth:
? Charvin CndP
Not overly familiar with this producer....
2005 Domaine Charvin Chateauneuf-du-Pape, alc 14.5%...bought at release... cork looks and smells fine.... a bit light colored...nose is squeaky clean and fruity...palate could be any $10 generic red wine, tastes "grapey" and simple....
how could this be this generic???
WTF??

Moved on to a 2007 Domaine de la Janasse Chaupin CndP.....also modern style but some leather and iron and interest....a bit on the sweeter side but it is young...not really any garrigue but at least gives pleasure...
not very tannic despite it's youth....a marked departure from the '98 and '99 that I found to be enjoyable

sold most of my Janasse but this is an "orphan" bottle that I missed...
Click to expand...

also modern style?

Are you implying that the Charvin is done in a modern way?
 
the harry karis chateauneuf book describes charvin as traditional:

no destemming
no filtration
no oak--all aging done in cement tank
just one cuvee--no ultra premium bottling (which would 'weaken' the regular bottling)
no information on whether fermentation is from wild yeast or from innoculation
age of vines in 2008: 45+ years
each vintage bottled in one go
 
If it's any help, I won't be touching my '05s for another 10-15 years. I find that most CNdP taste fine for the first few years after release but then shut down from years 3-8. They don't shut down hard in my experience, but neither do they reward drinking. Whether that's what's going on with your Chrvin I dunno, but modern he ain't by a long stretch.

Mark Lipton
 
Charvin is old school.
Nothing wrong with a 7 years old, old school CNdP that tastes weird, imho.
Except for Rayas (how the fuck do they take away all kind of structure in most of the vintages?) the structure always overshadows the wine soul at one point or an other. I think.
Cambie has brilliantly managed to correct that in his consulting wines.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
Charvin is old school.
Nothing wrong with a 7 years old, old school CNdP that tastes weird, imho.
Except for Rayas (how the fuck do they take away all kind of structure in most of the vintages?) the structure always overshadows the wine soul at one point or an other. I think.
Cambie has brilliantly managed to correct that in his consulting wines.
Click to expand...
A wonderful, simple recipe - when there's no structure and no soul, one can't overshadow the other. Cambie's a genius.
 
I find the 2005 Charvin quite approachable and vibrant now, or at least it was when I last had one sometime back in the fall. drssouth may just not like the wine. These things happen. But, to pile on, Charvin is the opposite of modern.

Although Janasse makes their own wine and not some consultant's concoction, I generally find it to overripe for my taste. I haven't tasted the 07 except once on release. Maybe it is doing better than I expected.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
Charvin is old school.
Nothing wrong with a 7 years old, old school CNdP that tastes weird, imho.
Except for Rayas (how the fuck do they take away all kind of structure in most of the vintages?) the structure always overshadows the wine soul at one point or an other. I think.
Cambie has brilliantly managed to correct that in his consulting wines.
Click to expand...

To follow up on Eric's note, I wouldn't discount that a 2005 might be a bit shut down. I'd try another vintage before I made a decision on that producer. FWIW, it's the only Chateauneuf of any interest to me besides Eric's and Rayas.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I find the 2005 Charvin quite approachable and vibrant now, or at least it was when I last had one sometime back in the fall.
Click to expand...

Stateside or in situ?

That could be the difference. From what I know of Steve's preferences, I think he would probably like Charvin.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I find the 2005 Charvin quite approachable and vibrant now, or at least it was when I last had one sometime back in the fall.
Click to expand...

Stateside or in situ?

That could be the difference. From what I know of Steve's preferences, I think he would probably like Charvin.
Click to expand...

Both. But I have bottles both bought from him and bought here and I don't remember which one. Some form of damage to his bottle is possible of course.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I find the 2005 Charvin quite approachable and vibrant now, or at least it was when I last had one sometime back in the fall.
Click to expand...

Stateside or in situ?

That could be the difference. From what I know of Steve's preferences, I think he would probably like Charvin.
Click to expand...

Both. But I have bottles both bought from him and bought here and I don't remember which one. Some form of damage to his bottle is possible of course.
Click to expand...

Actually, my thought was just a less dramatic one had been shipped a few thousand miles and another had not.
 
Poured back in the bottle 2 days ago and pushed the cork 1/2 way in....now reopened and poured....great nose and very interesting palate....clearly an "old" school wine. (as everyone has informed me)....must have just been shy and in need of air the other night
 
originally posted by Brézème:
Charvin is old school.
Nothing wrong with a 7 years old, old school CNdP that tastes weird, imho.
Except for Rayas (how the fuck do they take away all kind of structure in most of the vintages?) the structure always overshadows the wine soul at one point or an other. I think.
Cambie has brilliantly managed to correct that in his consulting wines.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what is "old school" at Charvin estate.
Best regards
pierre-alain benoit
 
Whole cluster, indigenous yeast, no barrique, no special cuvées, no spoofilation, a sense of proportion.
 
originally posted by Cliff:
Whole cluster, indigenous yeast, no barrique, no special cuvées, no spoofilation, a sense of proportion.
Click to expand...
I'm still don't understand.
"Old school" at Chateauneuf means imho éraflage, artificial yeast & foudres. Close to the Cambie style.
"Nothing wrong with a 7 years old, old school CNdP that tastes weird". Why should a 7 years old cdp taste weird ?
Best regards
pierre-alain
 
originally posted by pab:
originally posted by Cliff:
Whole cluster, indigenous yeast, no barrique, no special cuvées, no spoofilation, a sense of proportion.
Click to expand...
I'm still don't understand.
"Old school" at Chateauneuf means imho éraflage, artificial yeast & foudres. Close to the Cambie style.
"Nothing wrong with a 7 years old, old school CNdP that tastes weird". Why should a 7 years old cdp taste weird ?
Best regards
pierre-alain
Click to expand...

I had thought that "old school" translates fairly directly into French as de la vielle école. thus methode traditionelle [thanks, Sharon, for correcting my genders] and not methode cambienne. What you describe as "Cambie style," we would call new school. Another translation of the phrase "old school" might be de la vielle roche. And it would precisely refer to Cliff's description. In any case, the problem is not about Charvin but about the meaning of the term "old school" in English.
 
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