A lamely eBobish question re German Riesling vintages

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any takers? :-)

For me, perfect current drinking would be 1997 Kabinetts from the good guys, e.g. Schaefer, Muller, von Schubert, Donnhoff, Wagner, von Kesselstatt.

I assume one would have to go back to 94/93 for higher pradikats.
 
Depends on how you like them. '95 and '98 are drinking quite well now at kabinett & spatlese level. I opened a '97 Christoffel Treppchen Auslese** the other night that was fully developed in terms of resolving its sugar but not in terms of flavor. Problematic.

I could go on for a while, but I just did this whole thing last month on Garr's board.
 
is a good guy in your books?

I've been drinking the 2000s happily for the last 2 years, and to my surprise some of the '96s are starting to come round as well. Further back I think the pescatore and peru will know better.

Actually I've enjoyed drinking the 2007s as well - some nice von Buhl GGs, and the few Prums that have come my way...wow.

I actually preferred the Tyrell wines in '97 - fantastic kabinett - and recall some stunning Zilliken as well. No shortage of good wines in that year.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
von Kesselstattis a good guy in your books?

I've been drinking the 2000s happily for the last 2 years, and to my surprise some of the '96s are starting to come round as well. Further back I think the pescatore and peru will know better.

Actually I've enjoyed drinking the 2007s as well - some nice von Buhl GGs, and the few Prums that have come my way...wow.

I actually preferred the Tyrell wines in '97 - fantastic kabinett - and recall some stunning Zilliken as well. No shortage of good wines in that year.
Click to expand...

I think so. I've only caught up with von Kesselstatt starting in 1997, and they have been consistently very good. They have great vineyards for sure, and some of my favourite terroir in all of MSR. But I would not go beyond "very good", it seems the wines could have been and still should be even better. If I didn't know better, I'd question their yields based on taste alone, but given that this is riesling we are talking about, and given some of the ridiculous yields at some of the best addresses in the region, it would seem foolish to oversimplify.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
I actually preferred the Tyrell wines in '97 - fantastic kabinett
Click to expand...

And perhaps the best QbA I've tasted. Though I hear that it has the reputation for brilliance in the Ruwer and Saar, so perhaps not surprising.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Yixin:
von Kesselstattis a good guy in your books?

I've been drinking the 2000s happily for the last 2 years, and to my surprise some of the '96s are starting to come round as well. Further back I think the pescatore and peru will know better.

Actually I've enjoyed drinking the 2007s as well - some nice von Buhl GGs, and the few Prums that have come my way...wow.

I actually preferred the Tyrell wines in '97 - fantastic kabinett - and recall some stunning Zilliken as well. No shortage of good wines in that year.
Click to expand...

I think so. I've only caught up with von Kesselstatt starting in 1997, and they have been consistently very good. They have great vineyards for sure, and some of my favourite terroir in all of MSR. But I would not go beyond "very good", it seems the wines could have been and still should be even better. If I didn't know better, I'd question their yields based on taste alone, but given that this is riesling we are talking about, and given some of the ridiculous yields at some of the best addresses in the region, it would seem foolish to oversimplify.
Click to expand...
I think many folks need to raise yields so we can drink kabinett again.
 
I enjoy the Kesselstatt wines. I do not buy many (don't see many), but really don't see anything to quibble about in their results. Do they make the equal of Willi Scahefer or Prum or the way overperforming Selbach-Oster (in recent years) - no. But the wines are very good and very consistently good.

It's hard to do great things with 100 different wines (which they have had in some vintages).
 
I think many folks need to raise yields so we can drink kabinett again.
Click to expand...

You mean you don't like having the Germans practically give you auslesen for a kabinett price? Why you UNgrateful $!%$()!%
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think many folks need to raise yields so we can drink kabinett again.
Click to expand...

Perhaps 2007 will relieve your concerns, even if temporarily.

If you can deal with SC , that is.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think many folks need to raise yields so we can drink kabinett again.
Click to expand...

Perhaps 2007 will relieve your concerns, even if temporarily.
Click to expand...

Hardly. It's still fine spatlese in disguise. Granted I prefer that to botrytised auslese sold as kabinett a la 2006, but it's still not kabinett. Perhaps 2008 if Herr Theise is to be believed.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Yixin:
von Kesselstattis a good guy in your books?

I've been drinking the 2000s happily for the last 2 years, and to my surprise some of the '96s are starting to come round as well. Further back I think the pescatore and peru will know better.

Actually I've enjoyed drinking the 2007s as well - some nice von Buhl GGs, and the few Prums that have come my way...wow.

I actually preferred the Tyrell wines in '97 - fantastic kabinett - and recall some stunning Zilliken as well. No shortage of good wines in that year.
Click to expand...

I think so. I've only caught up with von Kesselstatt starting in 1997, and they have been consistently very good. They have great vineyards for sure, and some of my favourite terroir in all of MSR. But I would not go beyond "very good", it seems the wines could have been and still should be even better. If I didn't know better, I'd question their yields based on taste alone, but given that this is riesling we are talking about, and given some of the ridiculous yields at some of the best addresses in the region, it would seem foolish to oversimplify.
Click to expand...
I think many folks need to raise yields so we can drink kabinett again.
Click to expand...
You'll get them in spades from 2008.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Depends on how you like them. '95 and '98 are drinking quite well now at kabinett & spatlese level. I opened a '97 Christoffel Treppchen Auslese** the other night that was fully developed in terms of resolving its sugar but not in terms of flavor. Problematic.

I could go on for a while, but I just did this whole thing last month on Garr's board.
Click to expand...

Do you get in copyright trouble if you paste in or link to the stuff you put on Robin's board? (Or do you expect us to actually do the work of going over there to read it?!)

While we're talking German, what do people eat with mature MSR Auslese? I know the Asia-RS thing, but would expect these wines to be versatile enough to mix with a variety of foods.

I have a quantity of Auslese I bought back before I became food-conscious and am trying to figure out how these wines will thread in with our cooking in the years to come.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
It's hard to do great things with 100 different wines (which they have had in some vintages).
Click to expand...
They still make a lot of different wines, but they've been selling off most of what are not Erste Lage sites. The amount of land that the estate owns now is only about half of what Pigott reported in The World Atlas of Wine (and IIRC, that was already quite a bit less than the maximum amount that the estate had owned).
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think many folks need to raise yields so we can drink kabinett again.
Click to expand...

Perhaps 2007 will relieve your concerns, even if temporarily.

If you can deal with SC , that is.
Click to expand...
Actually, despite the reputation of the vintage, there are still a lot of high alcohol Kabinetts out there from 2007.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

While we're talking German, what do people eat with mature MSR Auslese? I know the Asia-RS thing, but would expect these wines to be versatile enough to mix with a variety of foods.

I have a quantity of Auslese I bought back before I became food-conscious and am trying to figure out how these wines will thread in with our cooking in the years to come.
Click to expand...
A lot of the producers like to serve them with venison or wild boar. Meats go surprisingly well with them, and cheeses, too, of course.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
While we're talking German, what do people eat with mature MSR Auslese? I know the Asia-RS thing, but would expect these wines to be versatile enough to mix with a variety of foods.
Click to expand...

Depending on how much sweetness is left, fruity pork dishes, sausages and other charcuterie, battered and fried vegetables, and acidic fish preparations are the sorts of things I tend toward.
 
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