winereactionsarethenewtrend : presolstice edition

M

Mark Anisman

Mark Anisman
3 December : 2004 Paolo Bea Sagrantino di Montefalco Secco Pagliaro
old and dried red fruit. tannins initially apparent but clearing well with the meal. complex / herbal. no obtrusive VA. i like this one.

6 December : 1995 Foreau Domaine du Clos Naudin Vouvray Demi-Sec
very yellow but not oxidized. sweet but lacking the acid balance for great. the Foreau austerity I prize is missing. would not have guessed demi-sec, rather moelleux from a not so stellar year. scoring as a demi-sec on a prime numbers only 1 - 10 scale : 3. main squeeze remarked that it reminded her of sauternes. score is better if paired with rich food as if it was a moelleux. it’s all about expectations.

15 December : 2006 Edmond Vatan Sancerre Clos la Néore
fresh sweet melon - pear / mint. tisane is a helpful adjective. mineral not dominant by any means. rich dense texture but alcohol is not an evident distraction. acidity does not announce its’ presence but well balanced never the less. really good. a wonder of a wine that, after more than a week of imbibing not a drop of wine, reminds you how special wine can be and add to your appreciation of life. i would have hazarded the guess of chenin blanc due to lack of significant grassiness.

experienced with herbed (tarragon / sorrel / parsley / spinach) goat cheese soufflé. the old canard of if "it is made there it must go with the wine there” has always been a bit of a mystery to me. i mean, it’s not that you can’t look around the neighborhood and find something that is a decent match. or maybe i should imagine a 16th century goat cheese producing neighbor leaning over the fence and casually remarking that he was so glad i was making a sauvignon blanc because he finally has a perfect match for his cheese and we might have a good thing going on here. or it would be nice to come up with a nice wine to pair with my goat cheese and hey how about that sauvignon blanc that i have seen heralded lately (by the town crier of course).

i remember buying Clos la Néore in the 1990s at the behest of David Schildknecht (who was i to say no to him). weekday dinner. no expectations but David said it was good wine so we'll give a go. it was stunning. still recall the moment. unlike any sauvignon blanc i had had up to then. always special when a new world is opened up for you and stimulates even more explorations.

i don’t taste oak, but a cellar tracker buddy described the 2017 as "Palate did not match the greatness of the nose, as it showed a lot of alcohol and oak. Even after 2 hours, it was still glorious smelling but oaky tasting.” he further clarified "I think there was a roundness and dryness that I typically map to oak, but it didn't have oaky flavors”. J. Friedrich in her Earthly Delights book tasted oak in the 2007 and 2008 versions. which is interesting in that Edmond Vatan’s last vintage was the 2007 and Anne Vatan was responsible for the 2008. I’m pretty sure new oak barrels are not used but they might be on to something.

17 December : 2005 Simon Bize Savigny-lès-Beaune 1er Cru Aux Guettes
burly. rough around the edges. no oak. good Burgundy. short note as I used up my word allotment above.
 
The idea about "if it is made there it must go with the wine there” makes sense to me because it helps put the wine into context. Not that you can't cook a chicken and serve it with Sauvignon Blanc and be able to figure out why the pairing works, but better to do the Sancerre with the fancy cheese dip and grab all the context out of it that you can wring from the combo.

I first leaned of Vatan's Clos la Néore back in the mid-1990s as well when it was 1, affordable and 2, available. I recall it as having been recommended by a friend who sold Peter Weygandt's book and there was an overall impression of gravitas inherent in them. For $20 a bottle it was worth taking a chance on bringing them into the store and that made it possible for me to stash a few bottles away for eternity. I drank them over ensuing years but was unable to replace them, but there are just some producers whose wines you know are going to stand the test of time. When I have tasted them, there's an etherialness to the Vatan wines and these are the sorts of bottles that keep wine interesting and make it worthwhile keeping bottles stashed in boxes in storage facilities near and far.

-Eden (duck, canard incoming!)
 
originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
The idea about "if it is made there it must go with the wine there” makes sense to me because it helps put the wine into context. Not that you can't cook a chicken and serve it with Sauvignon Blanc and be able to figure out why the pairing works, but better to do the Sancerre with the fancy cheese dip and grab all the context out of it that you can wring from the combo.

I first leaned of Vatan's Clos la Néore back in the mid-1990s as well when it was 1, affordable and 2, available. I recall it as having been recommended by a friend who sold Peter Weygandt's book and there was an overall impression of gravitas inherent in them. For $20 a bottle it was worth taking a chance on bringing them into the store and that made it possible for me to stash a few bottles away for eternity. I drank them over ensuing years but was unable to replace them, but there are just some producers whose wines you know are going to stand the test of time. When I have tasted them, there's an etherialness to the Vatan wines and these are the sorts of bottles that keep wine interesting and make it worthwhile keeping bottles stashed in boxes in storage facilities near and far.

-Eden (duck, canard incoming!)
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the 2016 vatan clos la neore was just released at (gulp!!) $100/bottle wholesale.

that's up from $84/bottle wholesale for the 2017 (yes, the 2016 came out after the 2017), which is up from $63/bottle wholesale for the 2015.

the $100 price of course includes trump's 'punishing of the french', for which america receives the whipping.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by MarkS:
the 2016 vatan clos la neore was just released at (gulp!!) $100/bottle wholesale.
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And 100 wholesale = 300 retail?
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that is up to the retailer. at a 70% margin, a bit over $140.
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That math is a bit off (at $100 wholesale, $150 would represent 33% gross margin and a 50% mark-up). I paid ~$150 retail for the one bottle of 2015 I got (we don't get a wholesale allocation anymore, it used to be something like 6 bottles of Vatan per case of another Weygandt Sancerre, then it was 1:12, then I have no idea, I think 1:36 all of which is fair I just couldn't keep up and had other fish to fry). That's probably a fair price given the quality and scarcity. I'm not sure if this is still going on, but Nady Foucault was helping make the wine and may have influenced new thinking about pricing.
 
100/142 = 70.42253521%

with few execptions, wholesale prices are set at 70% of the retail. a wine that retails for $19 will wholesale at $13.30. a wine that retails for $60 will wholesale for $42.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
100/142 = 70.42253521%

with few execptions, wholesale prices are set at 70% of the retail. a wine that retails for $19 will wholesale at $13.30. a wine that retails for $60 will wholesale for $42.
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I understand what you’re saying there, but we tend to speak in terms of markup. The markup on a $142 bottle that wholesales for $100 is 42% (of the wholesale price).

Mark Lipton
 
i am not an accountant, but on their side of the business i think that what they concern themselves with is cost of sales, not markup. hence to buy for $0.70 and sell for $1.00 is to have a margin of 70%.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
i am not an accountant, but on their side of the business i think that what they concern themselves with is cost of sales, not markup. hence to buy for $0.70 and sell for $1.00 is to have a margin of 70%.
Click to expand...

Gross margin = (Revenue - COGS) / Revenue
So, in your example margin = (1.00 - 0.70) / 1.00 = 0.30 = 30% gross margin

Mark up = the increase in the cost of a product (COGS) to arrive at its selling price
So, in your example mark up = 0.70 * x = 1.00; x = 1.43 mark up

If I bought something for $0.70 and sold it for $1.00 and thought my margin was 70% I'd be in real trouble (and I am, but I blame that on COVID-19).

I really think right now it's important to understand how establishments like restaurants work because if we get this wrong, all of them will go away and it'll just be Chipotle left (if we're lucky).

Our COGS need to be marked up enough to pay for staff, rent, bills, taxes, etc. in addition to the COGS themselves.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by robert ames:
i am not an accountant, but on their side of the business i think that what they concern themselves with is cost of sales, not markup. hence to buy for $0.70 and sell for $1.00 is to have a margin of 70%.
Click to expand...

Gross margin = (Revenue - COGS) / Revenue
So, in your example margin = (1.00 - 0.70) / 1.00 = 0.30 = 30% gross margin

Mark up = the increase in the cost of a product (COGS) to arrive at its selling price
So, in your example mark up = 0.70 * x = 1.00; x = 1.43 mark up

If I bought something for $0.70 and sold it for $1.00 and thought my margin was 70% I'd be in real trouble (and I am, but I blame that on COVID-19).

I really think right now it's important to understand how establishments like restaurants work because if we get this wrong, all of them will go away and it'll just be Chipotle left (if we're lucky).

Our COGS need to be marked up enough to pay for staff, rent, bills, taxes, etc. in addition to the COGS themselves.
Click to expand...

i stand corrected on misuse of terminology. it's not my bailiwick and was going on what i hear and overhear from bean counters.

0.7 and 1.43 are reciprocals. it's just a matter of whether you use multiplication or division to get from wholesale to retail.
 
"The idea about "if it is made there it must go with the wine there” makes sense to me because it helps put the wine into context. Not that you can't cook a chicken and serve it with Sauvignon Blanc and be able to figure out why the pairing works, but better to do the Sancerre with the fancy cheese dip and grab all the context out of it that you can wring from the combo. "

i think we are on the same page.

i object to the feeling i get from some folks who profer this aphorism as a rigid concept. That of course food A and wine A match simply because they share a locality. that does not make sense to me if indeed that is the driving force behind their statement. there are many matches and mismatches available to pick from and over hundreds of years folks can pick out the good ones.

i agree that since these combinations grew up together, that is a context that can be appreciated. it does help shape how the food might be prepared.

thank you for your words and Vatan story. i also am almost totally locked out of Vatan and other similar cases where a wine shoots to both stardom and a trophy price. A store where I had bought Vatan forever, but where i was not a big spender, informed me several years ago that i could not get any more Vatan as it would be allocated to their "best customers".
as you might surmise, Chambers Street Wines is NOT this store. i have bought a bottle or 2 of Vatan from CSW every year and they continue to honor my patronage. I buy despite the cost as it is a sentimental buy if you will, and gosh, it still is a really good quaff!
 
I took a bottle of the 2006 Vatan into a restaurant in April 2013 when my sister and a friend of hers were visiting. Had the waiter open it and the red burg i has also brought. When he came to pour the vatan my sister put her hand over her glass to signal no thanks (as did her friend). I turned to the waiter and said my sister is declining because she claims to not like white wine But please pour her a small amount anyway so she can at least taste it. Much eye-rolling by my sister. Then she stuck her nose into the glass, smelled and tasted it - and immediately signaled to the waiter that he should pour her some more.

All during dinner, she and her friend kept asking where could they get some of this. I tried explaining the situation but they didn’t get it as i had several. She dis persuade me to give her one to take home.
 
originally posted by maureen:
I took a bottle of the 2006 Vatan into a restaurant in April 2013 when my sister and a friend of hers were visiting. Had the waiter open it and the red burg i has also brought. When he came to pour the vatan my sister put her hand over her glass to signal no thanks (as did her friend). I turned to the waiter and said my sister is declining because she claims to not like white wine But please pour her a small amount anyway so she can at least taste it. Much eye-rolling by my sister. Then she stuck her nose into the glass, smelled and tasted it - and immediately signaled to the waiter that he should pour her some more.

All during dinner, she and her friend kept asking where could they get some of this. I tried explaining the situation but they didn’t get it as i had several. She dis persuade me to give her one to take home.
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Nice.
The slippery slope appears . . .
Best, jim
 
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