Impressions 10-3-21

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by scottreiner:
The Roddolo wines are suis generis and fucking brilliant.

I adore the Clos Cibonne wines. Look for the Vignettes cuvee rose, a few dollars more, but more profound. They also make a Caroline, but I've never seen it. The red is delicious, too. Light, but with wonderful structure.

Had a Caroline recently with a few years on it and it was still too oaky for me, thought the underlying fruit was top notch.

The Spéciale probably hits the sweet spot in the old vine/new oak continuum, but I think the basic offers almost as much for significantly less dough.

The Caroline is the only one is small barrels (300L) but I have no idea what percentage is new. The Tradition and Vignettes are raised in very old, huge foudres so I'm not sure where the oak notes would come from.


The one Spéciale we had (a 2014 six weeks ago) was showing a touch of oak, but much less than the Caroline (also a 2014, except ten weeks ago). The Caroline spends a full year in small barrels, and the impact wasn't so much egregious as annoying.

But, if the monkey is correct, it would be hard to see where even a touch of oak comes from. Maybe an impression from something else?

Always a possibility, but the subsequent comments about new foudres and long battonage, even though made in connection with a different cuvée, suggest that perhaps a smaller % of new foudres, or pervasive use of second use foudres, plus some battonage, could be responsible. Marcia, who is my source of confirmation/verification of such wine impressions, actually thought the Spéciale seemed as oaky as she remembered the Caroline, so that's no help.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by scottreiner:
The Roddolo wines are suis generis and fucking brilliant.

I adore the Clos Cibonne wines. Look for the Vignettes cuvee rose, a few dollars more, but more profound. They also make a Caroline, but I've never seen it. The red is delicious, too. Light, but with wonderful structure.

Had a Caroline recently with a few years on it and it was still too oaky for me, thought the underlying fruit was top notch.

The Spéciale probably hits the sweet spot in the old vine/new oak continuum, but I think the basic offers almost as much for significantly less dough.

The Caroline is the only one is small barrels (300L) but I have no idea what percentage is new. The Tradition and Vignettes are raised in very old, huge foudres so I'm not sure where the oak notes would come from.


The one Spéciale we had (a 2014 six weeks ago) was showing a touch of oak, but much less than the Caroline (also a 2014, except ten weeks ago). The Caroline spends a full year in small barrels, and the impact wasn't so much egregious as annoying.

But, if the monkey is correct, it would be hard to see where even a touch of oak comes from. Maybe an impression from something else?

Always a possibility, but the subsequent comments about new foudres and long battonage, even though made in connection with a different cuvée, suggest that perhaps a smaller % of new foudres, or pervasive use of second use foudres, plus some battonage, could be responsible. Marcia, who is my source of confirmation/verification of such wine impressions, actually thought the Spéciale seemed as oaky as she remembered the Caroline, so that's no help.
The website's description of the Speciale is pretty specicic: kept in large oak foudres that are 100 years old.
 
Folks may have noticed a simian slant here. Steph and I enjoyed a lovely and relaxing visit with Jim and Diane in the mountains. I tried to select wines to bring that have either been mainstays or discoveries of the last few years since we've seen them.

originally posted by Florida Jim:
Impressions 10-3-21Impressions 10-3-21

N/V Agrapart, Champagne Terroirs Extra Brut - blanc de blanc, quite dry, almost steely and delicious.

N/V Alexandre Filaine, Champagne Brut Speciale - more volume and texture than the Agrapart mentioned above but still crisp with a mineral backbone and good length. Very nice.

Two go-tos for us and the Filaine is my absolute Champagne crush these days.

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2017 Falkenstein, Niedermenneger Herrenberg Riesling Spatlese feinherb - good volume and cut in the mouth, a kiss of sweetness, with lovely florals playing around its edges. Charming.

This bottle (AP#23) was showing just the first bits of some mature Riesling notes, i.e. diesel. But just a hint. I may put a couple bottles aside as a science experiment, but I enjoy these so much as young wines I don't see why I shouldn't just drink them.

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2008 Mugneret-Gibourg, Nuits-Saint-Georges les Chaignots - resolved, integrated, complex and light on its feet. Really, really good.

This was a lovely bottle that disappeared WAY too quickly. Had I the foresight, I would have opened it earlier to get a bit of air. Silky and precise with a lovely Vosne spice. This wine always reads much more Vosne than NSG to me.

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2018 Vincent, Pinot Noir Armstrong Vineyard - richer and more fruit driven than the last bottle and showing young. Needs time but it’s not closed at all.

This was a treat to try after Jim's continued glowing praise. It had a mineral spine and savory aspect that I didn't expect. Quite good.

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2016 Prudhon, Saint-Aubin les Perrieres - beautiful nose of flowers and stones, light and easy drinking, crisp and clean. Pretty wine.

2019 Clos Cibonne, Tibouron cuvée Tradition - Rose done sous voile from Provence that is very lightly colored but has all the flavor one could ask. A complete wine.

I think Jim captured it here, nothing to add.

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2015 Colombera and Garella, Bramaterra - an earthy, slightly rustic Nebbiolo blend with a worsted wool texture, excellent intensity and length. Mouth-wateringly good.

Cristiano is really getting an intensity without weight in the wines he's working with. This wine was downright weird as a young wine but has really started to be quite pleasant recently and should be that way for a good while. An admirable quality of these wines is that you don't have to wait forever to drink them. They even have plenty of notes that aren't fruit just for Jay.

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2015 Dom du Collier, Saumur Blanc - killer nose with all sorts of nuance and chenin range, bright, clear and refreshingly tasty. Maybe a little lighter weight than expected but so easy to drink.

I'm really glad that Jim liked this. I'm repeatedly on record as to what I think of these and recent feedback from Michael Lewis was [shrug emoji] so it was nice to get some positive reinforcement that it isn't just me (not that it would change my thinking or behavior anyway, but it's nice not to be on an Island alone).

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2010 Flavio Roddolo, Barbera d’Alba - not a grape I pay much attention to but this bottle was an eye opener. Perfect balance, concentrated fruit and an almost elegant delivery. Superb.

We've been through about 2 cases of this wine and this was one of the best bottles (there is some variability that is to be expected with such an artisanal product, especially a Barbera from 2010 that I think was bottled in 2018).

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2013 Cowan Cellars, Pinot Noir Anderson Valley - in the fermenter I thought this would be a great wine. It was so pure. In the bottle it has always been tight; too tight to get a read on or really enjoy. Today, it has opened just enough to become an infant; baby fat sweet fruit, not quite integrated, evident concentration and still firm. Developing a velvety texture but it needs time.

2012 Cowan Cellars, Pinot Noir Anderson Valley - much more open than the ‘13 but still showing a firm core. Drinking now but no rush.

Best, jim

This was another treat. I've known Jim since before he moved to CA to make wine and always greatly admired the chutzpah as well as harboring a little bit of envy. I may have tasted both of these in their infancy and I'm happy to see how they've grown up. I think Jim really managed to craft wines with the vision that he had. These aren't big, blowsy Pinot Noir, but sun kissed with restraint and an eye for the table.

Something Jim left out was a lovely bottle of the 2011 Isa, his skin fermented Sauvignon Blanc. Rose colored more than orange with a piney, herbal edge to the berries and flowers on the nose. Quite lifted and with a much gentler palate presence than the nose would indicate. Easy to drink, especially with a little bite of cheese. The bottle was downed tout suite. Well done, my friend.
 
If anyone could point out where to find a bottle of the Roddolo wines to try it would be appreciated. Would love to try these, but difficult to find.

I have been recently enjoying the wines of Elio Sandri. The 18 Dolcetto is particularly good and useful at the table. Herbal and lifted and savory. The Nebbiolo is very nice too as is the Barbera. The Barbera is the biggest of the three and could use some time, but the other two are drinking well now.
 
New foudres??????
I don't know of any estate that buys new foudres every year for a specific bottling and certainly not Cibonne.

Nowadays and in a southern climate, the only reason why one would buy new oak every year for a specific bottling (assuming that the volume remains more or less the same from one vintage to another) would be to get the taste of it.
New foudre would then be a total non sense both economicaly (price of foudres is 3 to 4 times more than barriques for the same volume) and aromatically since foudres give a lot less taste of new oak.
 
Maybe the Marius is a one-off after they bought some new foudres? If they didn't fit with the profile of the rest of the wines, it might make sense to bottle it as it's own thing.

That said, I can't imagine that a 2600L vessel would have so much oak impact that you couldn't blend it away pretty easily if you wanted to?
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by scottreiner:
The Roddolo wines are suis generis and fucking brilliant.

I adore the Clos Cibonne wines. Look for the Vignettes cuvee rose, a few dollars more, but more profound. They also make a Caroline, but I've never seen it. The red is delicious, too. Light, but with wonderful structure.

Had a Caroline recently with a few years on it and it was still too oaky for me, thought the underlying fruit was top notch.

The Spéciale probably hits the sweet spot in the old vine/new oak continuum, but I think the basic offers almost as much for significantly less dough.

The Caroline is the only one is small barrels (300L) but I have no idea what percentage is new. The Tradition and Vignettes are raised in very old, huge foudres so I'm not sure where the oak notes would come from.


The one Spéciale we had (a 2014 six weeks ago) was showing a touch of oak, but much less than the Caroline (also a 2014, except ten weeks ago). The Caroline spends a full year in small barrels, and the impact wasn't so much egregious as annoying.

But, if the monkey is correct, it would be hard to see where even a touch of oak comes from. Maybe an impression from something else?

Always a possibility, but the subsequent comments about new foudres and long battonage, even though made in connection with a different cuvée, suggest that perhaps a smaller % of new foudres, or pervasive use of second use foudres, plus some battonage, could be responsible. Marcia, who is my source of confirmation/verification of such wine impressions, actually thought the Spéciale seemed as oaky as she remembered the Caroline, so that's no help.
The website's description of the Speciale is pretty specicic: kept in large oak foudres that are 100 years old.

If that is so, then I concede (there was I time when I mistook the characteristic buttery notes of some Chardonnays with oak). I'll try to find another bottle of Spéciale and concentrate more on this particular aspect.
 
Roddolo 2010 was at Manhattan Wine Co., but if not on the website, try giving a call?

Otherwise, Eataly, Discovery, and Dandelion have a 2011 Barbera listed.

As to Collier whites, Michael doesn’t like? [insert head scratch emoji]
 
originally posted by Marc D:
If anyone could point out where to find a bottle of the Roddolo wines to try it would be appreciated. Would love to try these, but difficult to find.

I have been recently enjoying the wines of Elio Sandri. The 18 Dolcetto is particularly good and useful at the table. Herbal and lifted and savory. The Nebbiolo is very nice too as is the Barbera. The Barbera is the biggest of the three and could use some time, but the other two are drinking well now.

MCF Rare Wines in the West Village has Roddolo.
 
originally posted by Marc D:
I have been recently enjoying the wines of Elio Sandri. The 18 Dolcetto is particularly good and useful at the table. Herbal and lifted and savory. The Nebbiolo is very nice too as is the Barbera. The Barbera is the biggest of the three and could use some time, but the other two are drinking well now.

a couple of random observations

I have been pleasantly surprised with the quality of both Dolcetto and Nebbiolo from the usual worthy suspects in 2018. Some candied fruit, but sufficient purity, and the wines make sense at the end. Some fine Barbera as well, but it's relatively bigger in '18. Is this expected, at least in some dirt?

The other is that I have found Elio Sandri's Barbera perceptibly riper than the other two grapes in "normal" vintages as well. 2013 comes to mind.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Roddolo 2010 was at Manhattan Wine Co., but if not on the website, try giving a call?

Otherwise, Eataly, Discovery, and Dandelion have a 2011 Barbera listed.

I'm waiting to get my allocation through my local distrubtor for the 2012 Barolo and Nebbiolo d'Alba and the 2011 Barbera. I have received the 2016 Dolcetto which is the current release. It's a bit more clenched than the 2015 from the last release.

originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
As to Collier whites, Michael doesn’t like? [insert head scratch emoji]

It was more that he didn't find it particularly interesting or exciting. IIRC, "kind of boring". Fair enough. The last dry chenin he and I had together was a bottle of Bernadeau Ongles 2017 from his cellar so Collier might be to straight by comparison.
 
originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Florida Jim:
2015 Colombera and Garella, Bramaterra - an earthy, slightly rustic Nebbiolo blend with a worsted wool texture, excellent intensity and length. Mouth-wateringly good.

Cristiano is really getting an intensity without weight in the wines he's working with. This wine was downright weird as a young wine but has really started to be quite pleasant recently and should be that way for a good while. An admirable quality of these wines is that you don't have to wait forever to drink them. They even have plenty of notes that aren't fruit just for Jay.

Curious what you found so weird about the 15 Bramaterra early on. C&G are making wines that hit a real sweet spot for me in what I am looking for in Nebbiolo these days. A ‘16 Lessona recently might have been the best wine I’ve tasted from them yet. Your “intensity without weight” is an apt descriptor.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Roddolo 2010 was at Manhattan Wine Co., but if not on the website, try giving a call?

Otherwise, Eataly, Discovery, and Dandelion have a 2011 Barbera listed.

I'm waiting to get my allocation through my local distrubtor for the 2012 Barolo and Nebbiolo d'Alba and the 2011 Barbera. I have received the 2016 Dolcetto which is the current release. It's a bit more clenched than the 2015 from the last release.

originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
As to Collier whites, Michael doesn’t like? [insert head scratch emoji]

It was more that he didn't find it particularly interesting or exciting. IIRC, "kind of boring". Fair enough. The last dry chenin he and I had together was a bottle of Bernadeau Ongles 2017 from his cellar so Collier might be to straight by comparison.

I suppose I should speak for myself. Nathan has it right, though. Nothing wrong with the Collier whites (or at least the bottle Nathan gave me, as I haven't really bought them for myself). But they did not move me in the way that some Loire Chenin does (Bernaudeau being one good example, the reincarnation of Chateau de Bonnezeaux being another, and of course Huet, Pinon, Foreau, Angeli, etc.). Maybe Collier turns into something more beautiful with age, but at this stage I found it to be merely serviceable, if I am being honest. Perhaps the bottle caught me in a bad mood, but I couldn't hear it saying anything.

Now I did finally get around to trying that 2011 Roddolo Barolo you left for me, and I found that more compelling.
 
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