How is Beaujolais in 2020?

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
The Word earlier in 2021 (2018/19 vintage arrivals) was that wine producers were "...inflating stated alcohol levels to avoid tariffs on lower-alcohol wine categories." Convenient/comforting "explanation" substituting speculation for facts. Or conflating speculation with causality.
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This sounds wrong: higher taxes are always on the wine with more alcohol.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
The Word earlier in 2021 (2018/19 vintage arrivals) was that wine producers were "...inflating stated alcohol levels to avoid tariffs on lower-alcohol wine categories." Convenient/comforting "explanation" substituting speculation for facts. Or conflating speculation with causality.
Click to expand...
This sounds wrong: higher taxes are always on the wine with more alcohol.
Click to expand...

jeff--your question is based on logic. we just had four years where--to heights never seen before--logic had no bearing on policy--or even the concept of policy.

chances are good that i am wrong, but i seem to recall that the ultimate trump wine tariffs were on EU wines 14% and less. and maybe it wasn't for wines from all members of the EU.

i was told that one reason the price hike on the 2017 sang des cailloux cuvee doucinello (for instance) was so high was that they had labelled just before the tariffs went in to effect, and that they had had the misfortune of labeling the wine at 14%, making them subject to the tariff.

i had an importer tell me that there was 2020 beaujolais nouveau labelled as 14.5% to beat the trump tariff.

another wrinkle in the trump tariffs was that they didn't apply to champagne because a close buddy of trump's was a champagne lover. not sure about EU sparklings in general.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
The Word earlier in 2021 (2018/19 vintage arrivals) was that wine producers were "...inflating stated alcohol levels to avoid tariffs on lower-alcohol wine categories." Convenient/comforting "explanation" substituting speculation for facts. Or conflating speculation with causality.
Click to expand...
This sounds wrong: higher taxes are always on the wine with more alcohol.
Click to expand...

Ah, so much fun to fan the flames....

Yes, Jeff, but import tariffs, not taxes. Kerfuffle over Airbus/Boeing retaliatory stuff. Enacted during Trump administration. In late 2019 French (and others') wines 14% alcohol and lower (!) were subjected to 25% import tariffs. In January 2021 it was expanded to include over-14% alc wines. In March 2021 this was suspended by Biden administration. Not sure of the status (temporary or permanent).

So the Word was that at first producer folks were ante-ing up the alcohol content on labels (would have been mostly 2018 vintage I guess.... not sure about 2019) to over 14% to escape that tariff affecting the price in US. Like I said, anecdotes are no substitute for facts. I have not had this conversation with contacts in the Loire Valley.
 
Ah, Robert and Karen, thanks for the reminder... yes, I also heard (but have no first-hand knowledge) that domaines were up-marking the alcohol in order to dodge the insanity of US foreign policy.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Karen,
When I made wine, I was the person who ordered the lab test regarding alcohol by volume on every wine I made. That was also the case with every other winemaker in my facility (28).
From those results, I ordered the label making company what abv to include on the label.
I was told, but never experienced, the feds could audit and test at will.
Best, Jim
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I cannot understand why more wineries/makers don't do this. Cost is usually cited as the reason, but you were among 30 small producers that did it despite the cost.
As a winemaker, it just seems like something you would (personally) want to know.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Karen,
When I made wine, I was the person who ordered the lab test regarding alcohol by volume on every wine I made. That was also the case with every other winemaker in my facility (28).
From those results, I ordered the label making company what abv to include on the label.
I was told, but never experienced, the feds could audit and test at will.
Best, Jim
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Thanks, Jim, your process is what I hope for. Ethical, sensible, feasible. These actions reflect the person, in winemaking as in all endeavors.... I'm a fan.

My best back to you,
Karen
 
EU regulations allow +/- 0.5 error on wine labels alcohol%.

Which means that most of the wines with actual level of alc >13.6%
 
originally posted by Brézème:
Giving this, I would guess it was impossible to harvest ripe gamay, on the most solar sites (Py, Madone,...) below 14% potential, probably more like 15%.
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Are people looking at less solar sites, NE facing or the like, for Gamay these days?

What about alternate grapes like Grenache or Syrah? (I think that Jean-Paul had planted a bit of Syrah in one of his vineyards in the Beaujolais, but maybe that's not true. Memory is tricky.)
 
FWIW JPB gets roughly the same alcohol on his roussanne than me in Brézème, and harvests within a week after me.

All the experimental syrah vineyards that I know on granit sites in Bojo are as early ripening as any good site in the NOrthern Rhone.

I don't know if anyone tried syrah on higher altitude locations such as Chirouble or grenache yet.

Vignenvie has planted Cinsault and Counoise. First wine in 2025!
 
2020 Louis Claude Desvignes, Morgon Javernieres has the most delightful perfume and, while a touch closed, was really tasty with pork chop, roasted beets, green beans with mushrooms and potatoes. Both Diane and I were pleased.
Label says 13.5 abv.
And, FWIW, this is my first wine from this producer (that I remember) but it won’t be my last.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
2020 Louis Claude Desvignes, Morgon Javernieres has the most delightful perfume and, while a touch closed, was really tasty with pork chop, roasted beets, green beans with mushrooms and potatoes. Both Diane and I were pleased.
Label says 13.5 abv.
And, FWIW, this is my first wine from this producer (that I remember) but it won’t be my last.
Best, Jim
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a notch below but a great qpr is their Morgon "La Voute St Vincent" bottling.
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
a notch below but a great qpr is their Morgon "La Voute St Vincent" bottling.
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and one that you'd normally want to approach first, while cote du py and javernieres would require years to unwind. However, as Jim's note confirms, they have taken steps to make the wines a little more accessible early on, perhaps somewhat aided by generosity from the vintage.

beets are tough with wine, but pork chop+roasted beets+devignes sounds great.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
2020 Louis Claude Desvignes, Morgon Javernieres has the most delightful perfume and, while a touch closed, was really tasty with pork chop, roasted beets, green beans with mushrooms and potatoes. Both Diane and I were pleased.
Label says 13.5 abv.
And, FWIW, this is my first wine from this producer (that I remember) but it won’t be my last.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to open a Desvignes Javernieres young. Once this cru settles in, it takes its time before giving you a peek behind its curtain of tannins. Reminds me that I need to pull out a 2005 to try again one of these days.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
2020 Louis Claude Desvignes, Morgon Javernieres has the most delightful perfume and, while a touch closed, was really tasty with pork chop, roasted beets, green beans with mushrooms and potatoes. Both Diane and I were pleased.
Label says 13.5 abv.
And, FWIW, this is my first wine from this producer (that I remember) but it won’t be my last.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to open a Desvignes Javernieres young. Once this cru settles in, it takes its time before giving you a peek behind its curtain of tannins. Reminds me that I need to pull out a 2005 to try again one of these days.
Click to expand...

Going to open the straight 2020 Javernieres but am sending Impenitents to the cellar. Have lots of old vintages that I’m waiting to open at a dedicated Disorderly gathering.
 
I have eight vintages of Desvignes, occasionally more than one cuvee, back to 1999. I think Pavel also has a bunch. This is sounding good.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
2020 Louis Claude Desvignes, Morgon Javernieres has the most delightful perfume and, while a touch closed, was really tasty with pork chop, roasted beets, green beans with mushrooms and potatoes. Both Diane and I were pleased.
Label says 13.5 abv.
And, FWIW, this is my first wine from this producer (that I remember) but it won’t be my last.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to open a Desvignes Javernieres young. Once this cru settles in, it takes its time before giving you a peek behind its curtain of tannins. Reminds me that I need to pull out a 2005 to try again one of these days.
Click to expand...

Going to open the straight 2020 Javernieres but am sending Impenitents to the cellar. Have lots of old vintages that I’m waiting to open at a dedicated Disorderly gathering.
Click to expand...

Have you opened an Impenitents yet that was ready to drink, with a reasonable decant?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I have eight vintages of Desvignes, occasionally more than one cuvee, back to 1999. I think Pavel also has a bunch. This is sounding good.
Click to expand...

I have three Desvignes and two Thivin - does that count as a full house?
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
2020 Louis Claude Desvignes, Morgon Javernieres has the most delightful perfume and, while a touch closed, was really tasty with pork chop, roasted beets, green beans with mushrooms and potatoes. Both Diane and I were pleased.
Label says 13.5 abv.
And, FWIW, this is my first wine from this producer (that I remember) but it won’t be my last.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to open a Desvignes Javernieres young. Once this cru settles in, it takes its time before giving you a peek behind its curtain of tannins. Reminds me that I need to pull out a 2005 to try again one of these days.
Click to expand...

Going to open the straight 2020 Javernieres but am sending Impenitents to the cellar. Have lots of old vintages that I’m waiting to open at a dedicated Disorderly gathering.
Click to expand...

Have you opened an Impenitents yet that was ready to drink, with a reasonable decant?
Click to expand...

2019 was the first I bought.

I should probably get to my 1999 Javernieres before tackling any Impenitents.
 
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