CWD: Disorderly Adjacent 2016 Bordeaux

V

VLM

VLM
I'm tempted to buy broadly on 2016 Red Bordeaux as I've heard and read that it is a bit of a throwback vintage in terms of balance and it is a birth year for my youngest.

I don't keep current with Bordeaux and could use some guidance. Keep in mind that I like more fruit than Jay, for example, and polished isn't necessarily negative. I know things have been moving fast, from spoof to biodynamics and concrete eggs in less than 10 years. What are folks takes these days?

I was looking at:
Lafon Rochet
Grand-Puy-Lacoste
Pichon-Baron
Lynch Bages
Beychevelle
Rauzan-Ségla
Dom. de Chevalier
Figeac
Beau-Sejour Becot
Maybe Trotanoy if I'm feeling particularly flush.

The above is based on what I've liked historically.

What's going on with these wines (which I've had bottles of over the years):
Calon-Ségur
Montrose
Pichon-Comtesse
Ducru-Beaucaillou
Léoville-Barton
Léoville-Las Cases
Any other Margaux?
Haut Bailly
La Conseillante
Clinet
Bélair-Monange
 
I would consider Pichon Baron, Leoville Barton, Langoa Barton, Calon Segur, and you mentioned Margaux -- Brane Cantenac, Palmer, d'Issan, and Lascombes.

. . . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

I would consider Pichon Baron, Leoville Barton, Langoa Barton, Calon Segur, and you mentioned Margaux -- Brane Cantenac, Palmer, d'Issan, and Lascombes.

. . . . . . Pete
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Why those?
 
Jim, I would imagine you are among the naysayers when it comes to points; even so, I'll offer that all of these wines easily rate well above the 90 point level except perhaps the Brane Cantenac (and it is a longtime favorable selection for me). The Langoa Barton is often what I would call a sleeper in whatever vintage, including 2016, and can be a relative bargain. Leoville Barton, Palmer, and Pichon Barton rarely, if ever, disappoint. Some of the older vintages of Calon Segur were special. Lascombes is usually an affordable delight. And all should cellar very well. And so on.

. . . . . Pete
 
Not a 2016, but 1 2014 GPL would have been right up your alley: good fruit, medium bodied, no spoof that I witnessed and at a good price at the time.
 
You are a little out of touch if you think all these estates will offer what your remembered liking about them without tasting (and now at a point where (at least historically) some would start to shut down).

If I were flush and even considering such a purchase, which I’m not, consider this short list. With caveat that some like Figeac have changed and some like Montrose or Calon really haven’t:

Cantemerle (must buy low end $ wine)

From your lists:
Lafon Rochet
Grand-Puy-Lacoste
Beychevelle
Pichon-Baron
Figeac

Calon-Ségur
Montrose
Ducru-Beaucaillou
Léoville-Barton
Haut Bailly

If feeling flush:
VCC; Trot ok, but really it’s a multigenerational prospect
La Miss
Pichon-Comtesse (Lalande)

Avoid:
The others you listed without trying
 
I don't follow Bordeaux closely at all, but bought some for my daughter, also a 2016 kid:

Beychevelle
Pichon Lalande
Domaine de Chevalier
Grand-Puy-Lacoste
Leoville Barton
Haut-Bailly
Lynch Bages
Pichon Baron
Pontet-Canet
Canon
Montrose
Smith Haut Lafitte
d'Issan

Of those, the only one I really consider buying for myself most vintages is Domaine de Chevalier. I bought these en primeur, and probably wouldn't pony up for some of them at current pricing.
 
I have no recommendations, but just wanted to say YOUR YOUNGEST IS 5???! Where in the blue blazes has this time gone? It seems like only yesterday I was ogling baby photos of your firstborn.

Yikes!
Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
I have no recommendations, but just wanted to say YOUR YOUNGEST IS 5???! Where in the blue blazes has this time gone? It seems like only yesterday I was ogling baby photos of your firstborn.

Yikes!
Mark Lipton
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I bet she still has plenty of spunk. Last time my wife and I saw her was when she was 3, probably right before Covid hit. I'll never forget her going up to Sandi and asking "Do you have any money?"
 
Lafon Rochet - haven't had
Grand-Puy-Lacoste - recommended. very Pauillac with good energy. Maybe the latter makes it sufficiently disorderly.
Pichon-Baron - epic. Possibly my WOTV.
Lynch Bages - also excellent.
Beychevelle - haven't had
Rauzan-Ségla - haven't had
Dom. de Chevalier - recommended
Figeac - haven't had
Beau-Sejour Becot - loved it. This is one of my favorite St. E's these days
Maybe Trotanoy - haven't had
Calon-Ségur - must-have. I hate all the talk about Bordeaux chateau "improving" when it usually means the opposite but Calon really kicked it up a gear starting around '14.
Montrose - WOTV candidate for me alongside the Baron (and Lafite. which costs more.)
Pichon-Comtesse - also epic.
Ducru-Beaucaillou - excellent but didn't jazz me like the Pichons
Léoville-Barton - not worth buying after the WS WOTY price hike, but I was actually mildly disappointed anyway
Léoville-Las Cases - epic.
Any other Margaux? - BRANE CANTENAC! Maybe the most disorderly wine left in the 1855 classification.
Haut Bailly - Preferred the '15 (and '18). Very good but if you are fond of the super-elegant HB's from the '90s and earlier, you won't find that anymore.
La Conseillante - this chateau has gone on the frootier side. I would sooner chase VCC for high end Pomerol.
Clinet - haven't had
Bélair-Monange - haven't had

I would add to the list:

Durfort-Vivens
aforementioned Brane-Cantenac
La Prieure
Vray Croix de Gay
 
I haven't had a lot of 2016 Bordeaux, but I like what I have tasted. I have been to some extensive 2015 tastings (also good), which I'd hope translate to 2016 in terms of who's making the good stuff. On your list, I'd vouch for:
GP Lacoste
Domaine de Chevalier
Beychevelle
Lynch Bages
Haut Bailly

I'd also consider
Larrivet Haut Brion (good value, very Graves)
Citran (good value)
Durfort-Vivens (maybe under the radar, they've gone biodynamic. Not that I'm the biggest biodynamic fan but their 2015 was very fragrant and complex even at a young age)
Branaire Ducru (the 2015 was complex and developed young, but rather exotic and somehow atypical of St Julien; maybe more like St. Emilion or even some top Chilean blends)
Giscours (2015 was very old school, don't know if this is the house style or a one-off)
Malartic Lagraviere (also somewhat old school)
Pichon Lalande (because it's always good)

I haven't had Meyney in recent years, but over the past decade or so it has repeatedly done very well among prestigious classed growth wines, in blind tastings I've attended. OTOH, these were vintages from the 80s and 90s; I don't know if they have changed style there.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
Jim, Keith, Jasyon et al

Did I miss the memo? Exactly when was the thing that started at DDC with the 2002 vintage undone???
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It wasn’t. DDC is no longer DDC. Notice it is not on my list.
 
I love Graves and have drunk tons of DDC across multiple eras. They've changed - almost everything has - but it's still one of the top estates in Graves. I actually find the change in Haut Bailly more dramatic than at DDC. DDC being half the price makes it a very worthwhile buy for me. Also, bonus points for the Diam corks.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
Jim, Keith, Jasyon et al

Did I miss the memo? Exactly when was the thing that started at DDC with the 2002 vintage undone???
Click to expand...

I defer to Keith. As I said, I don’t follow Bordeaux closely. And I was 26 in 2002, so didn’t drink older DDC as young wine. The primary attraction for me has been price. It’s gone up over the last few vintages, but DDC was priced at $50ish. At that price, I was willing to see what would happen with time. I don’t recall running into strong oak, but have only had a few recent vintages, and have never had the wines from 02-12.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I love Graves and have drunk tons of DDC across multiple eras. They've changed - almost everything has - but it's still one of the top estates in Graves. I actually find the change in Haut Bailly more dramatic than at DDC. DDC being half the price makes it a very worthwhile buy for me. Also, bonus points for the Diam corks.
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Well, I've got 2000, 2015 and 2016 on the way so I'll see for myself. I haven't had a post 2000 DdC IRCC.

I also grabbed a 2016 Giscours for comparison. I might grab a couple other things locally and make it a hootenanny.
 
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