CWD: Disorderly Adjacent 2016 Bordeaux

I'm considering my '16s all fast asleep, but Ferriere is always very structured so that doesn't surprise me.

d'Issan for just a few bucks more and Brane-Cantenac for just a few bucks more than that make up a holy trinity of seriously undervalued Margaux for me and all made terrific wines the last few years.

I like the recent Rauzan-Seglas too, but they are pretty elegant and polished in a way I suppose could come off boring on the wrong day, and they are notably more expensive than the others, so I don't buy them in nearly as much quantity. But I think they are worth another look. All the other wines on Yule's boring list excepting DDC are on my boring list too.
 
I'm seeing a '20 Ferriere at a local shop on pre-arrival: I'll be sure to pick one up. Hopefully, it will still be showing well by the time it arrives.

And perhaps my impression of the Rauzan Seglas was colored by having them right after the Canons (I had '20 Canon right before the '19 and '20 Rauzan Seglas and I had the '21 Canon right before the '21 Rauzan Segla at UGC). I'll be sure to give them another shot.

(Unfortunately, I didn't make it in time to try the '21 Brane-Cantenac at UGC this year, but that is another producer on my list to try).
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

Montrose - WOTV candidate for me alongside the Baron (and Lafite. which costs more.)
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I had a 2016 Montrose last weekend where I opened it in the early afternoon and followed over the day into dinner. I drink very little Bordeaux and almost none this young anymore so I lack a little context for what I was drinking. I grabbed a Montrose because I’ve been intrigued by what folks have said about the wine in recent vintages. Well, I was reminded what the word “backward” means wrt wine. It did open up over the course of the evening and worked pretty well with a ribeye. What struck me is how buried the fruit was by the structure, loads of tannin but fairly fine grained and plenty of acidity. It was really compact and unyielding the entire time, more of an intellectual exercise rather than a pleasurable one. There were moments when the fruit would linger on the palate or a note of graphite would really come to the fore and there was good mineral twang. It certainly seems to have something and seems to get universal praise. What do folks think the drinking window will be on a wine like this?

In contrast, a 2016 Pichon Baron was much more about the fruit and not so painfully incisive (and the Baron had lower perceived acidity too).
 
originally posted by VLM:
I had a 2016 Montrose it was really compact and unyielding the entire time, more of an intellectual exercise rather than a pleasurable one.

In contrast, a 2016 Pichon Baron was much more about the fruit and not so painfully incisive (and the Baron had lower perceived acidity too).
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Nathan, in my view, you have well described the contrast that I always find to be the case with those two wines. I am quite consistently a Pichon Baron fan (to the extent that I am a Claret fan these days).

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by VLM:
What do folks think the drinking window will be on a wine like this?
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Take 1986 which certainly provided some rather painful experiences for years. Wines in that range quality-wise took 30 years. We are arguably in the first decade of their window. Back of envelope: despite similarities, knock off a decade for climate change; perhaps retry in 2036 ?
 
Interesting. I haven't had any 2016s since they came out, but I can't say I'm shocked the window might have closed. That wine will outlive us all though.
 
Pavel, wouldn’t you say we don’t know if and how global warming will affect the aging curve of wines apparently (haven’t had it) structured like 2016 Montrose? I’d guess the 2036 experience will not be too different than today. We will see (hopefully).
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Pavel, wouldn’t you say we don’t know if and how global warming will affect the aging curve of wines apparently (haven’t had it) structured like 2016 Montrose? I’d guess the 2036 experience will not be too different than today. We will see (hopefully).
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Interestingly enough, I tasted some 1986s at the same stage (mostly LLC and Cos, not Montrose, but it was a different wine then anyway). The LLC was backward, but not coiled in the same way as this Montrose and without the perceived acidity. Anyway, I'm leaning against picking any up. I will probably be able to buy a bottle in 5 or 10 years for not much more than it is now, I'll just be bearing some storage risk.

On a different note, I did pick up some Grand Corbin-Despagne on a whim and it has been fantastic to my palate and much cheaper. I get that they are different wines and don't doubt that Montrose may be the better wine down the road but that's just a data point.
 
originally posted by VLM:
On a different note, I did pick up some Grand Corbin-Despagne on a whim and it has been fantastic to my palate and much cheaper. I get that they are different wines and don't doubt that Montrose may be the better wine down the road but that's just a data point.
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What vintages have you liked (search engine shows no notes)?
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by VLM:
On a different note, I did pick up some Grand Corbin-Despagne on a whim and it has been fantastic to my palate and much cheaper. I get that they are different wines and don't doubt that Montrose may be the better wine down the road but that's just a data point.
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What vintages have you liked (search engine shows no notes)?
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Of Grand Corbin-Despagne? I've only had 2016, 2018, and 2019 and liked them all. We open about 500 bottles a year from the cellar so not everything can get a note. I do my best, but I have 3 kids, a day job, and own a restaurant.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by VLM:
On a different note, I did pick up some Grand Corbin-Despagne on a whim and it has been fantastic to my palate and much cheaper. I get that they are different wines and don't doubt that Montrose may be the better wine down the road but that's just a data point.
Click to expand...

What vintages have you liked (search engine shows no notes)?
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Of Grand Corbin-Despagne? I've only had 2016, 2018, and 2019 and liked them all. We open about 500 bottles a year from the cellar so not everything can get a note. I do my best, but I have 3 kids, a day job, and own a restaurant.
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Yes, Grand Corbin-Despagne. Wasn't complainin', just showing that I looked before asking.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Bordeaux is pretty good value these days so you don't have to compare the $50 Croix Boissee to $150 Haut-Bailly or Canon - lots of good ones around $50. Try Ferriere!
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IMHO there's a lot of good value Bordeaux in the $15-30 realm these days. It's just that petit chateaux distribution is so fragmented, it requires a lot of tasting and many wines are here today, gone tomorrow.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

In terms of gobbage, the 2003 and the 2009 are notoriously the worst offenders. 1996 and 2014 should both please classic palates. So, no real merlot correlation.

.
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Over the years, I've found that gobbage seems to be primarily a function of climate and hang time, maybe with a nod to excess yield reduction.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Pavel, wouldn’t you say we don’t know if and how global warming will affect the aging curve of wines apparently (haven’t had it) structured like 2016 Montrose? I’d guess the 2036 experience will not be too different than today. We will see (hopefully).
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Haven't had Montrose either, so this is all pure speculation, VLM's note notwithstanding. Generally, it's hard to believe anything made with today's pH levels will follow an 86 ( let alone a 75 ) curve. Several 2016s have been excellent; nice don't-mess-with-me structure but the tannins are rounder. Also, just because the window may open sooner does not necessarily imply they won't stick around for a very long time.
 
I’m still firmly in the camp of only buying older Bordeaux. I see speculating on trajectory of recent release Montrose or Ducru or whatever as a younger person’s project.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
IMHO there's a lot of good value Bordeaux in the $15-30 realm these days. It's just that petit chateaux distribution is so fragmented, it requires a lot of tasting and many wines are here today, gone tomorrow.
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oh hell yeah.

puisseguin, lussac, montagne st em, entre-deux-mers from recent personal experience and buying habits; very likely in fronsac and st georges as well based on hearsay

left bank is a bit of a struggle, perhaps more so for the reasons you cite (would need to go up to $30-40 range there, based on what I know so far)
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
IMHO there's a lot of good value Bordeaux in the $15-30 realm these days. It's just that petit chateaux distribution is so fragmented, it requires a lot of tasting and many wines are here today, gone tomorrow.
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oh hell yeah.
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I'll add my oh hell yeah, too.

Even in the Boatloads of Cheap Crap price range (under $20), which I patrol for cooking wines, Your Friendly Cook often gets a slurp out of every bottle and there are occasional winners.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Even in the Boatloads of Cheap Crap price range (under $20), which I patrol for cooking wines, Your Friendly Cook often gets a slurp out of every bottle and there are occasional winners.
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how often do you cook with reds?
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Even in the Boatloads of Cheap Crap price range (under $20), which I patrol for cooking wines, Your Friendly Cook often gets a slurp out of every bottle and there are occasional winners.
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how often do you cook with reds?
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I make a lot of stews and braises in the cool weather so, maybe, every other week, every third week. (For example, Boeuf Bourguignon two weeks ago, Coq au Vin tomorrow.)
 
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