Random Wines w/dinner (menu)

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by maureen:

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

originally posted by robert ames:
they are all great wines

That's not true. There's a Chateauneuf.

Nailed it!

and there are people that think mark twain was a hack and that dylan's oeuvre is all doggerel.

I appreciate the sentiment, but, to engage in more nitpicking, it should be "people who..."

i really like the word 'that', as it can often be used to increase clarity. why the word 'who' here? because what is being referred to are people rather than something inanimate?

Exactly. "Who," without a comma before it, functions exactly like "that," as opposed to "which," but refers to people, not things.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Exactly. "Who," without a comma before it, functions exactly like "that," as opposed to "which," but refers to people, not things.

see, the reason I know JL is 100% correct here is because I had to learn this in order to get my US citizenship.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Exactly. "Who," without a comma before it, functions exactly like "that," as opposed to "which," but refers to people, not things.

see, the reason I know JL is 100% correct here is because I had to learn this in order to get my US citizenship.

wow! this in a country where, for a large minority, ignorance is a point of pride.

what did they teach you about the oxford comma?

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

I think I learned the difference between restrictive and non-restrictive clauses following who, which and that in grammar school. As with most publishing houses, my grammar school taught that the serial comma was optional, except to avoid ambiguity.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by robert ames:
what did they teach you about the oxford comma?

wrong citizenship

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by robert ames:
wow! this in a country where, for a large minority, ignorance is a point of pride.

Not when the law was written.

 

[Tom Blach]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
If you won't eat whales or dolphins because of their intelligence, you need to consider your position on octopus. I have eaten octopus and probably will again, but my guilt is catching up with me. It took some years before I gave up foie gras.

I find it hard to understand why a carnivore would not eat foie gras, unless of course they don't enjoy it. There is certainly no moral distinction between the raising of foie gras birds (of which the liver is only a smallish component)and other animals for the table; indeed while there is some cruelty involved at the most commercial level well raised foie gras birds have an enviable life compared to other animals farmed for their meat.
With regard to octopus I'm not sure I can see why one should only eat less intelligent animals!!

 

[Tom Blach]

Double posted, somehow.
I do not recommend eating whale,purely on gastronomic grounds.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Tom Blach:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
If you won't eat whales or dolphins because of their intelligence, you need to consider your position on octopus. I have eaten octopus and probably will again, but my guilt is catching up with me. It took some years before I gave up foie gras.

I find it hard to understand why a carnivore would not eat foie gras, unless of course they don't enjoy it. There is certainly no moral distinction between the raising of foie gras birds (of which the liver is only a smallish component)and other animals for the table; indeed while there is some cruelty involved at the most commercial level well raised foie gras birds have an enviable life compared to other animals farmed for their meat.
With regard to octopus I'm not sure I can see why one should only eat less intelligent animals!!

Because you don't address the main issue about foie gras, the force feeding of the geese and ducks, I don't know if you are simply unaware of it or if you dismiss it. You may think this is not serious, but you should be aware that many people do, given that numbers of countries, the state of California, and numbers of chefs either ban or eschew the product. I don't want to get into an argument with you, just address your first claim, which is that you don't even understand the issue.

 

[Tom Blach]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Tom Blach:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
If you won't eat whales or dolphins because of their intelligence, you need to consider your position on octopus. I have eaten octopus and probably will again, but my guilt is catching up with me. It took some years before I gave up foie gras.

I find it hard to understand why a carnivore would not eat foie gras, unless of course they don't enjoy it. There is certainly no moral distinction between the raising of foie gras birds (of which the liver is only a smallish component)and other animals for the table; indeed while there is some cruelty involved at the most commercial level well raised foie gras birds have an enviable life compared to other animals farmed for their meat.
With regard to octopus I'm not sure I can see why one should only eat less intelligent animals!!

Because you don't address the main issue about foie gras, the force feeding of the geese and ducks, I don't know if you are simply unaware of it or if you dismiss it. You may think this is not serious, but you should be aware that many people do, given that numbers of countries, the state of California, and numbers of chefs either ban or eschew the product. I don't want to get into an argument with you, just address your first claim, which is that you don't even understand the issue.

Not only do I understand it but I have witnessed it on many occasions. It isn't force feeding in the sense that the birds don't want to be fed,they queue very enthusiastically to be fed. As you know their livers are designed to store energy when migrating. While there are certainly more unsavoury and cheaper practices this applies to the commercial rearing of all animals. There is simply nothing wrong with the conscientious and humane rearing of foie gras birds.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

IF you are aware of the issue, you understand the objections of other carnivores. You just don't agree with them.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
IF you are aware of the issue, you understand the objections of other carnivores. You just don't agree with them.

Yes, they object to making a habit of something they'd rather discover by chance.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
IF you are aware of the issue, you understand the objections of other carnivores. You just don't agree with them.

Yes, they object to making a habit of something they'd rather discover by chance.

I'm not sure "making a habit" quite covers the act of force feeding. If ducks and geese would fatten themselves of their own volition to that extent, there wouldn't be the objections.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
IF you are aware of the issue, you understand the objections of other carnivores. You just don't agree with them.

Yes, they object to making a habit of something they'd rather discover by chance.

I'm not sure "making a habit" quite covers the act of force feeding. If ducks and geese would fatten themselves of their own volition to that extent, there wouldn't be the objections.

what's needed is gmo ducks and geese that over-eat all on their own.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
IF you are aware of the issue, you understand the objections of other carnivores. You just don't agree with them.

Yes, they object to making a habit of something they'd rather discover by chance.

I'm not sure "making a habit" quite covers the act of force feeding. If ducks and geese would fatten themselves of their own volition to that extent, there wouldn't be the objections.

what's needed is gmo ducks and geese that over-eat all on their own.

I have some genes I could donate.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
IF you are aware of the issue, you understand the objections of other carnivores. You just don't agree with them.

Yes, they object to making a habit of something they'd rather discover by chance.

I'm not sure "making a habit" quite covers the act of force feeding. If ducks and geese would fatten themselves of their own volition to that extent, there wouldn't be the objections.

what's needed is gmo ducks and geese that over-eat all on their own.

I have some genes I could donate.

Well played!

 

[Yule Kim]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
IF you are aware of the issue, you understand the objections of other carnivores. You just don't agree with them.

Yes, they object to making a habit of something they'd rather discover by chance.

I'm not sure "making a habit" quite covers the act of force feeding. If ducks and geese would fatten themselves of their own volition to that extent, there wouldn't be the objections.

To be honest, foie gras is a little overrated. We should all be eating ankimo instead.

Ankimo is like the foie gras of the sea (or perhaps we should think of foie gras as the ankimo of the air).

 

[Peter Creasey]

Very interesting. I've never been presented with an opportunity to have ankimo so I'll avidly watch for an opportunity.

How is the best way to secure ankimo to have at home?

. . . . . . Pete

 

[georg lauer]

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Very interesting. I've never been presented with an opportunity to have ankimo so I'll avidly watch for an opportunity.

How is the best way to secure ankimo to have at home?

. . . . . . Pete

It is best left to be prepared by experts, it can be quite fine, but requires some critical steps like pressing it afaik. I tried it once myself and had the great idea to not consult any recipe. Imagine foie gras that tastes like the oil in a sardine can with the texture of a sponge. After trying myself I yanked the guests' plates quickly off the table before they could take a bite.

 

[Peter Creasey]

Georg, sorry you had to learn the hard way, but thanks for the heads-up. We will, as is our custom, carefully follow directions if we go forward with the ankimo idea.

. . . . . . . Pete