Chambers.nyc

[mark e]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Actually, that is probably just under 3X retail, which is, alas, practically the new restaurant standard. Other entries are more than 3X. I really don't know how restaurants sell wine anymore. In DC, I generally bring my own.

Retail is $50.

This is 3 x wholesale, which is indeed the standard for wines in that price range.

The norm in NYC or rather lower than average? Cheap wine in Oslo restaurants is marked up 5x retail while, say, Dauvissat 1er cru chablis is less than half of what you would pay in Manhattan in a restaurant.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Tristan Welles:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Seems to run from standardly overpriced to absurdly overpriced.

La Croix Boisée at $110 was either a typo, a magnum mis-categorized or a deal breaker.

That wine is $50+ retail for the current release, which is 2018. Being able to buy a wine two years older for about double retail is pretty favorable restaurant pricing. I don't see much basis for complaining about pricing here. There are lots and lots of cool wines at very fair prices.

Indeed, you are right. I am already out of date on current prices. With my experience of La Croix Boisée, two years doesn't really buy you much appreciable development. Ten years, maybe.

 

[Claude Kolm]

For the record, it's la Croix Boissée with two "s".

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
For the record, it's la Croix Boissée with two "s".

Isn't there an oaked version with just one "s"?

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
For the record, it's la Croix Boissée with two "s".

Isn't there an oaked version with just one "s"?

Hester, not oak.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Actually, that is probably just under 3X retail, which is, alas, practically the new restaurant standard. Other entries are more than 3X. I really don't know how restaurants sell wine anymore. In DC, I generally bring my own.

Retail is $50.

This is 3 x wholesale, which is indeed the standard for wines in that price range.

The norm in NYC or rather lower than average? Cheap wine in Oslo restaurants is marked up 5x retail while, say, Dauvissat 1er cru chablis is less than half of what you would pay in Manhattan in a restaurant.

NY/NJ is typically 4x for cheap wine, 2x for high end stuff, 3x for everything in between. I am sure there are outliers.

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
Soon after I moved to Texas, I learned the TABC forbids corkage at restaurants with a full liquor license. Fortunately, a few of my favorite places in Austin did not have full liquor licenses, so I could pay a corkage fee. I often found that sharing a generous pour with the sommelier led some to waive the fee.

Recently I've noticed more and more places are simply forbidding it. While I understand their economic reasoning, I remain very unhappy about spending 3-4x retail for what is often pure plonk or even worse, DNPIM. Beer, anyone?

Guess this is what happens when you don't have an income tax: live free but pay for it in other ways?

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by MarkS:
Guess this is what happens when you don't have an income tax: live free but pay for it in other ways?

The use of the word "free" in that sentence is marketing-speak.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by MarkS:

originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
Soon after I moved to Texas, I learned the TABC forbids corkage at restaurants with a full liquor license. Fortunately, a few of my favorite places in Austin did not have full liquor licenses, so I could pay a corkage fee. I often found that sharing a generous pour with the sommelier led some to waive the fee.

Recently I've noticed more and more places are simply forbidding it. While I understand their economic reasoning, I remain very unhappy about spending 3-4x retail for what is often pure plonk or even worse, DNPIM. Beer, anyone?

Guess this is what happens when you don't have an income tax: live free but pay for it in other ways?

is this a backhanded proposal to start charging tax for wine in MA? please say no

 

[Tristan Welles]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by MarkS:

originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
Soon after I moved to Texas, I learned the TABC forbids corkage at restaurants with a full liquor license. Fortunately, a few of my favorite places in Austin did not have full liquor licenses, so I could pay a corkage fee. I often found that sharing a generous pour with the sommelier led some to waive the fee.

Recently I've noticed more and more places are simply forbidding it. While I understand their economic reasoning, I remain very unhappy about spending 3-4x retail for what is often pure plonk or even worse, DNPIM. Beer, anyone?

Guess this is what happens when you don't have an income tax: live free but pay for it in other ways?

is this a backhanded proposal to start charging tax for wine in MA? please say no

TEX or MASS? I wish folks would make up their minds on all this tax/ wine policy!

 

[Tristan Welles]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Actually, that is probably just under 3X retail, which is, alas, practically the new restaurant standard. Other entries are more than 3X. I really don't know how restaurants sell wine anymore. In DC, I generally bring my own.

Retail is $50.

This is 3 x wholesale, which is indeed the standard for wines in that price range.

The norm in NYC or rather lower than average? Cheap wine in Oslo restaurants is marked up 5x retail while, say, Dauvissat 1er cru chablis is less than half of what you would pay in Manhattan in a restaurant.

NY/NJ is typically 4x for cheap wine, 2x for high end stuff, 3x for everything in between. I am sure there are outliers.

serves me right for not following the price of Croix Boissée (or any other wine) for 5 years.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Tristan Welles:

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
is this a backhanded proposal to start charging tax for wine in MA? please say no

TEX or MASS? I wish folks would make up their minds on all this tax/ wine policy!

I think it's OK to call him "Tex"; he isn't really "Pavel", either.

Isn't mass rather old-fashioned in these days of quantum computing?

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
he isn't really "Pavel", either.

Next your going to say he isn't Russian.

 

[Robert Dentice]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Seems to run from standardly overpriced to absurdly overpriced.

Really? I think you are just way behind on current wine prices. I quickly scanned and easily found these.

2016 Egon Muller Kabinett $215 / Current retail for 2020 $225

2011 Immich Batterieberg $98 / Current retail for 2019 around $70-80

2014 Fourrier Vieilles Vignes Gevrey Chambertin $170 / Current retail for 2019 $130

2015 Cecile Tremblay Très Girard Morey-Saint-Denis $360 / average wine-searcher $650

I could go on and on....

The bigger problem is that it is not going to last. I was there last Friday and many wines were already gone.

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Seems to run from standardly overpriced to absurdly overpriced.

The bigger problem is that it is not going to last. I was there last Friday and many wines were already gone.

This is why I no longer post restaurants with great wine lists and prices on the internet and will only take people to them if they promise not to post it themselves.

 

[Robert Dentice]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Seems to run from standardly overpriced to absurdly overpriced.

The bigger problem is that it is not going to last. I was there last Friday and many wines were already gone.

This is why I no longer post restaurants with great wine lists and prices on the internet and will only take people to them if they promise not to post it themselves.

So true! The amount of mostly younger cellar raiders as I call them is at an all time high. Many restaurants simply can't keep up with the velocity of price increases in higher-end wines so it is actually MUCH cheaper to drink in restaurants for many young collectors. Then add in the instagram aspect of posting everything.

 

[fatboy]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

This is why I no longer post restaurants with great wine lists and prices on the internet and will only take people to them if they promise not to post it themselves.

sometimes i ignored this rule in the past. i was wrong.

fb.

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by fatboy:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

This is why I no longer post restaurants with great wine lists and prices on the internet and will only take people to them if they promise not to post it themselves.

sometimes i ignored this rule in the past. i was wrong.

fb.

Takes a strong man teh admit tat.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Tristan Welles:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Seems to run from standardly overpriced to absurdly overpriced.

La Croix Boisée at $110 was either a typo, a magnum mis-categorized or a deal breaker.

That wine is $50+ retail for the current release, which is 2018. Being able to buy a wine two years older for about double retail is pretty favorable restaurant pricing. I don't see much basis for complaining about pricing here. There are lots and lots of cool wines at very fair prices.

The link doesn't work for me, but this is certainly true of the CB ($60 would be FL retail and $50 at a discounter (but why would someone discount and allocated wine?)). $110 is a little less than 3x my wholesale. We sell it for less at Rue Cler, but I will probably change that soon (although still under $100, I think). We lowered wine prices when we needed to raise food prices, but we need to be profitable again or close down.

FWIW, even at $60, CB is still one of the greatest values in red wine, IMO. Nothing else has quite the pedigree, finesse and proven track record of graceful aging towards complexity and completeness. The last time Matthieu was in NC we did CB blind with Rougeard Clos from 2005 and it showed the class of the wine. I've told him many times that he doesn't charge enough for it, and he doesn't.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Seems to run from standardly overpriced to absurdly overpriced.

The bigger problem is that it is not going to last. I was there last Friday and many wines were already gone.

This is why I no longer post restaurants with great wine lists and prices on the internet and will only take people to them if they promise not to post it themselves.

So true! The amount of mostly younger cellar raiders as I call them is at an all time high. Many restaurants simply can't keep up with the velocity of price increases in higher-end wines so it is actually MUCH cheaper to drink in restaurants for many young collectors. Then add in the instagram aspect of posting everything.

I mean, as much as I hate to be the old guy I see this too. To be fair, I did ta version of this when I was young and travelling, but I didn't just try to drink Coche/Roulot/Allemand/Rousseau/Rayas which is what it seems like today (well, add Mirroirs and Overnoy, inter alia, I guess). I did drink big names too, don't get me wrong, but I also used cool cellars with older wine to explore things I knew nothing about like Ch. Simone.

The internet, and social media especially, have really pushed the velocity of information and narrowed and specified what is "cool"; thus, I don't post about my favorite secret spots and tell only a few people and swear them to secrecy. I wish it didn't have to be this way but on my last visit to Pot d'Etain a gaggle of obnoxious douchenozzles were drinking a set of wines they should have been embarrassed about, were so loud they destroyed any ambiance in the room and barely had time to do anything besides arrange the bottles and take pictures. It was pretty gross. My wife opined, "that's why I hate wine people" to which I could only shrug and plead that they didn't represent everyone.

So I guess I am the old guy shouting at the sky.