Dinner Wine Selections?

Peter Creasey

Peter Creasey

Peter Creasey
If all you know about a dinner menu is what's written here, what are your thoughts about these wine ideas or about alternatives thereto?

Foie Gras, Fig Chutney, Brioche Toast, Poached Pear -- Marcel Deiss Riesling '08

Lobster Bisque, Colossal Crab, Truffle Butter -- E Guigal Condrieu La Doriane '16

Duck Confit, Duck Drumette, Cherry Jubilee Chutney, Mushroom Medley -- Chateau Beaucastel CNdP '05

D’Artagnan Rack of Lamb, Blackberry Demi-Glace, Rosemary Risotto, Vegetables -- Latour Corton-Grancey Grand Cru '03

Garlic Naan for the Table

Mocha Macarons -- Ridge Lytton Springs '09 or Ridge Pagani Ranch '05

. . . . . . Pete
 
Pete,
I know that you (and others) like these kinds of meals but my first reaction to this menu is that I know I’m going to have and upset stomach if I try to eat this.
As for the wines, they should be fine but, there again, I wonder if I will be after drinking them all.

Don’t get old amigo; excess has a cost.
Best, Jim
 
Jim, well said. Your remonstration is way more timely than you would ever imagine.

Even so, hopefully I'll get some customarily discerning feedback here about wine selections.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Dinner Wine Selections?
If all you know about a dinner menu is what's written here, what are your thoughts about these wine ideas or about alternatives thereto?

Foie Gras, Fig Chutney, Brioche Toast, Poached Pear -- Marcel Deiss Riesling '08

Lobster Bisque, Colossal Crab, Truffle Butter -- E Guigal Condrieu La Doriane '16

Duck Confit, Duck Drumette, Cherry Jubilee Chutney, Mushroom Medley -- Chateau Beaucastel CNdP '05

D’Artagnan Rack of Lamb, Blackberry Demi-Glace, Rosemary Risotto, Vegetables -- Latour Corton-Grancey Grand Cru '03

Garlic Naan for the Table

Mocha Macarons -- Ridge Lytton Springs '09 or Ridge Pagani Ranch '05

. . . . . . Pete
Click to expand...

How sweet is the Deiss Riesling? If it's on the drier side, the sweet elements in the dish will probably make the wine taste way too tart.

La Doriane should work fine. Personally, I can't stand that wine. New oak and Viognier is an abomination, IMO.

Definite yes on Beaucastel. Also, yes on Latour. Hopefully, it doesn't show typical '03 characteristics.

A much better choice for the Macarons would be Banyuls or Ridge Essence if you want Zin.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Dinner Wine Selections?
If all you know about a dinner menu is what's written here, what are your thoughts about these wine ideas or about alternatives thereto?

Foie Gras, Fig Chutney, Brioche Toast, Poached Pear -- Marcel Deiss Riesling '08

Lobster Bisque, Colossal Crab, Truffle Butter -- E Guigal Condrieu La Doriane '16

Duck Confit, Duck Drumette, Cherry Jubilee Chutney, Mushroom Medley -- Chateau Beaucastel CNdP '05

D’Artagnan Rack of Lamb, Blackberry Demi-Glace, Rosemary Risotto, Vegetables -- Latour Corton-Grancey Grand Cru '03

Garlic Naan for the Table

Mocha Macarons -- Ridge Lytton Springs '09 or Ridge Pagani Ranch '05

. . . . . . Pete
Click to expand...

How sweet is the Deiss Riesling? If it's on the drier side, the sweet elements in the dish will probably make the wine taste way too tart.

La Doriane should work fine. Personally, I can't stand that wine. New oak and Viognier is an abomination, IMO.

Definite yes on Beaucastel. Also, yes on Latour. Hopefully, it doesn't show typical '03 characteristics.

A much better choice for the Macarons would be Banyuls or Ridge Essence if you want Zin.
Click to expand...

I'm not fond of the Doriane Condrieu either. In general, even Condrieu's I like, I like only on occasion, Viognier being what it is. I have paired Hermitage white with good bottle age with dishes like that with some success. Also Loire chenins.
 
Gentlemen, thanks for the feedback thus far.

Larry, good question about the sweetness level of the Reisling. And, yes, I thought about the Banyuls, a personal favorite, but don't have any Ridge Essence to work with.

. . . . . . Pete
 
Feels like a rich, in several ways, dinner. Why not throw out some first growths and let them fight it out to the finish?
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Dinner Wine Selections?
If all you know about a dinner menu is what's written here, what are your thoughts about these wine ideas or about alternatives thereto?

Foie Gras, Fig Chutney, Brioche Toast, Poached Pear -- Marcel Deiss Riesling '08

Lobster Bisque, Colossal Crab, Truffle Butter -- E Guigal Condrieu La Doriane '16

Duck Confit, Duck Drumette, Cherry Jubilee Chutney, Mushroom Medley -- Chateau Beaucastel CNdP '05

D’Artagnan Rack of Lamb, Blackberry Demi-Glace, Rosemary Risotto, Vegetables -- Latour Corton-Grancey Grand Cru '03

Garlic Naan for the Table

Mocha Macarons -- Ridge Lytton Springs '09 or Ridge Pagani Ranch '05

. . . . . . Pete
Click to expand...

How sweet is the Deiss Riesling? If it's on the drier side, the sweet elements in the dish will probably make the wine taste way too tart.

La Doriane should work fine. Personally, I can't stand that wine. New oak and Viognier is an abomination, IMO.
Click to expand...
I find it easier to imagine the Condrieu with the first course than the Deiss Riesling. And the Deiss Riesling could move to the second course, on the contrast (vs. complement) or acid-cutting-cream principles.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
I find it easier to imagine the Condrieu with the first course than the Deiss Riesling. And the Deiss Riesling could move to the second course, on the contrast (vs. complement) or acid-cutting-cream principles.
Click to expand...

Christian, you may be onto something. I think I may like that idea.

Thanks.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
I find it easier to imagine the Condrieu with the first course than the Deiss Riesling. And the Deiss Riesling could move to the second course, on the contrast (vs. complement) or acid-cutting-cream principles.
Click to expand...

Christian, you may be onto something. I think I may like that idea.

Thanks.
. . . . . Pete
Click to expand...
Now that I think about it, one could make a good argument for swapping the reds too. I.E. Cherry -> Pinot Noir & Blackberry -> Mour/Syrah/Counoise. Mushrooms with aged Burgundy & Rosemary with southern Rhone. Plus the concept of moving from lighter to heavier wine (but I blew that up by swapping the Riesling & Condrieu).
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM): one could make a good argument for swapping the reds too. I.E. Cherry -> Pinot Noir & Blackberry -> Mour/Syrah/Counoise. Mushrooms with aged Burgundy & Rosemary with southern Rhone. Plus the concept of moving from lighter to heavier wine (but I blew that up by swapping the Riesling & Condrieu).
Click to expand...

Christian, good comments once again.

Both of your points make good sense. Even so, whenever possible, I like the more classic lineup of Rhone or Claret followed by Burgundy. And, yes, the lighter to heavier is generally a conventional approach but I frankly don't worry too much about its merits/demerits. Affording Burgundy its deserved key position outweighs other considerations (to my mind).

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM): one could make a good argument for swapping the reds too. I.E. Cherry -> Pinot Noir & Blackberry -> Mour/Syrah/Counoise. Mushrooms with aged Burgundy & Rosemary with southern Rhone. Plus the concept of moving from lighter to heavier wine (but I blew that up by swapping the Riesling & Condrieu).
Click to expand...

Christian, good comments once again.

Both of your points make good sense. Even so, whenever possible, I like the more classic lineup of Rhone or Claret followed by Burgundy. And, yes, the lighter to heavier is generally a conventional approach but I frankly don't worry too much about its merits/demerits. Affording Burgundy its deserved key position outweighs other considerations (to my mind).

. . . . . Pete
Click to expand...

CMM is right. Roasted lamb with CnP and duck/mushrooms with Burgs are great matches. The issue of "key" just does not make sense. But most of all: Lose. The. Fruit. No blackberries and no cherry chutney (which if somewhat classic would have vinegar). Nuttin' wrong with duck and fungi on their own. It is isn't the wines that are a problem, it is all that sugar.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM): one could make a good argument for swapping the reds too. I.E. Cherry -> Pinot Noir & Blackberry -> Mour/Syrah/Counoise. Mushrooms with aged Burgundy & Rosemary with southern Rhone...
Click to expand...

Christian, good comments once again.

Both of your points make good sense...
Pete
Click to expand...
...It is isn't the wines that are a problem, it is all that sugar.
Click to expand...

An issue you must have pondered frequently at the Slanted Door. And yet I have greatly enjoyed red wines with a lot of ripe fruit alongside stews made with prunes and carrots, or dishes involving fresh figs. And Chianti or Dolcetto with dishes like Jackson Fillmore's classic Chicken with Balsamic Vinegar. (But that involves a sugar-acid balance.) Anyway, what would you suggest for sauces or dishes involving ripe red/dark fruits and a resulting noticeable amount of sugar? Fat, low acid reds? Off-dry reds? Spatlese level whites? Rose' with 1-2% RS..?
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM): one could make a good argument for swapping the reds too. I.E. Cherry -> Pinot Noir & Blackberry -> Mour/Syrah/Counoise. Mushrooms with aged Burgundy & Rosemary with southern Rhone...
Click to expand...

Christian, good comments once again.

Both of your points make good sense...
Pete
Click to expand...
...It is isn't the wines that are a problem, it is all that sugar.
Click to expand...

An issue you must have pondered frequently at the Slanted Door. And yet I have greatly enjoyed red wines with a lot of ripe fruit alongside stews made with prunes and carrots, or dishes involving fresh figs. And Chianti or Dolcetto with dishes like Jackson Fillmore's classic Chicken with Balsamic Vinegar. (But that involves a sugar-acid balance.) Anyway, what would you suggest for sauces or dishes involving ripe red/dark fruits and a resulting noticeable amount of sugar? Fat, low acid reds? Off-dry reds? Spatlese level whites? Rose' with 1-2% RS..?
Click to expand...

It's an interesting question. Leaving aside the issue of spice for now (most northern European dishes are not spicy), red wines can certainly work if unoaked, and low in alcohol and tannin. Yes, moderate rather than high acidity does seem to help, as well as eschewing "important" wines (the two mentioned above should be avoided). Reds that I thought worked well included beaujolais, gamay from other regions (the soft, fresh reds from Domaine Giachino in the Savoie are an example), marzemino, mondeuse, vernatsch and german spätburgunder. 'Course everything is different now with global warming, so one must test out the limits of ripeness.

The caramelized chicken claypot at Slanted Door (eaten the way it is intended: with lots of rice and a tiny bit of the claypot) worked with some of the aforementioned reds, but riesling with RS worked better.

At Aziza, I found - by trial and error - that the braised lamb shank which had tons of dried fruit and was a rather sweet dish worked best with an aged Pfalz halbtrocken auslese. Cannot remember the producer from whom I found aged wine (approx. 10 years old), but the wine had an earthy component that just seemed to sing with the dish. Who knew?
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM): one could make a good argument for swapping the reds too. I.E. Cherry -> Pinot Noir & Blackberry -> Mour/Syrah/Counoise. Mushrooms with aged Burgundy & Rosemary with southern Rhone...
Click to expand...

Christian, good comments once again.

Both of your points make good sense...
Pete
Click to expand...
...It is isn't the wines that are a problem, it is all that sugar.
Click to expand...

An issue you must have pondered frequently at the Slanted Door. And yet I have greatly enjoyed red wines with a lot of ripe fruit alongside stews made with prunes and carrots, or dishes involving fresh figs. And Chianti or Dolcetto with dishes like Jackson Fillmore's classic Chicken with Balsamic Vinegar. (But that involves a sugar-acid balance.) Anyway, what would you suggest for sauces or dishes involving ripe red/dark fruits and a resulting noticeable amount of sugar? Fat, low acid reds? Off-dry reds? Spatlese level whites? Rose' with 1-2% RS..?
Click to expand...

It's an interesting question. Leaving aside the issue of spice for now (most northern European dishes are not spicy), red wines can certainly work if unoaked, and low in alcohol and tannin. Yes, moderate rather than high acidity does seem to help, as well as eschewing "important" wines (the two mentioned above should be avoided). Reds that I thought worked well included beaujolais, gamay from other regions (the soft, fresh reds from Domaine Giachino in the Savoie are an example), marzemino, mondeuse, vernatsch and german spätburgunder. 'Course everything is different now with global warming, so one must test out the limits of ripeness.

The caramelized chicken claypot at Slanted Door (eaten the way it is intended: with lots of rice and a tiny bit of the claypot) worked with some of the aforementioned reds, but riesling with RS worked better.

At Aziza, I found - by trial and error - that the braised lamb shank which had tons of dried fruit and was a rather sweet dish worked best with an aged Pfalz halbtrocken auslese. Cannot remember the producer from whom I found aged wine (approx. 10 years old), but the wine had an earthy component that just seemed to sing with the dish. Who knew?
Click to expand...
A Halbtrocken Auslese works out to what, RS wise? Since we're talking Pfalz Riesling and slightly sweet things, one of the best combinations I ever tasted was a von Buhl Spatlese with Parsnip soup topped with a little crab.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM): one could make a good argument for swapping the reds too. I.E. Cherry -> Pinot Noir & Blackberry -> Mour/Syrah/Counoise. Mushrooms with aged Burgundy & Rosemary with southern Rhone...
Click to expand...

Christian, good comments once again.

Both of your points make good sense...
Pete
Click to expand...
...It is isn't the wines that are a problem, it is all that sugar.
Click to expand...

An issue you must have pondered frequently at the Slanted Door. And yet I have greatly enjoyed red wines with a lot of ripe fruit alongside stews made with prunes and carrots, or dishes involving fresh figs. And Chianti or Dolcetto with dishes like Jackson Fillmore's classic Chicken with Balsamic Vinegar. (But that involves a sugar-acid balance.) Anyway, what would you suggest for sauces or dishes involving ripe red/dark fruits and a resulting noticeable amount of sugar? Fat, low acid reds? Off-dry reds? Spatlese level whites? Rose' with 1-2% RS..?
Click to expand...

It's an interesting question. Leaving aside the issue of spice for now (most northern European dishes are not spicy), red wines can certainly work if unoaked, and low in alcohol and tannin. Yes, moderate rather than high acidity does seem to help, as well as eschewing "important" wines (the two mentioned above should be avoided). Reds that I thought worked well included beaujolais, gamay from other regions (the soft, fresh reds from Domaine Giachino in the Savoie are an example), marzemino, mondeuse, vernatsch and german spätburgunder. 'Course everything is different now with global warming, so one must test out the limits of ripeness.

The caramelized chicken claypot at Slanted Door (eaten the way it is intended: with lots of rice and a tiny bit of the claypot) worked with some of the aforementioned reds, but riesling with RS worked better.

At Aziza, I found - by trial and error - that the braised lamb shank which had tons of dried fruit and was a rather sweet dish worked best with an aged Pfalz halbtrocken auslese. Cannot remember the producer from whom I found aged wine (approx. 10 years old), but the wine had an earthy component that just seemed to sing with the dish. Who knew?
Click to expand...
A Halbtrocken Auslese works out to what, RS wise? Since we're talking Pfalz Riesling and slightly sweet things, one of the best combinations I ever tasted was a von Buhl Spatlese with Parsnip soup topped with a little crab.
Click to expand...

Could very likely have been Von Buhl. It was from Rudi's portfolio, not Terry's. Honestly, I have no idea of the RS, but it was not that sweet, and the age reduced the perception of sweetness. Parsnips are very sweet so I could see that working brilliantly.
 
originally posted by mark e:

At Aziza, I found - by trial and error - that the braised lamb shank which had tons of dried fruit and was a rather sweet dish worked best with an aged Pfalz halbtrocken auslese.
Click to expand...
Sounds like von Bassermann-Jordan, which Rudi imported for a few vintages in the late 1990s -- they did an Auslese that was not real sweet, although it was not labelled halbtrocken (at least the bottles that I saw). I can't imagine it from Rebholz, and I never saw such a bottling from von Buhl or Pfeffingen, Rudi's other Pfalz producers. Gunderloch did make a three-star Auslese that was often off-dry, that was sensational, and that Rudi imported, but Gunderloch is in Rheinhessen, the next region north from the Pfalz.

Thinking of the braised lamb shank, in my mind I can see a Scheurebe Kabinett or Spätlese from the Pfalz as being a potentially super match.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by mark e:

At Aziza, I found - by trial and error - that the braised lamb shank which had tons of dried fruit and was a rather sweet dish worked best with an aged Pfalz halbtrocken auslese.
Click to expand...
Sounds like von Bassermann-Jordan, which Rudi imported for a few vintages in the late 1990s -- they did an Auslese that was not real sweet, although it was not labelled halbtrocken (at least the bottles that I saw). I can't imagine it from Rebholz, and I never saw such a bottling from von Buhl or Pfeffingen, Rudi's other Pfalz producers. Gunderloch did make a three-star Auslese that was often off-dry, that was sensational, and that Rudi imported, but Gunderloch is in Rheinhessen, the next region north from the Pfalz.

Thinking of the braised lamb shank, in my mind I can see a Scheurebe Kabinett or Spätlese from the Pfalz as being a potentially super match.
Click to expand...

You are probably correct about Basserman-Jordan. Koehler-Ruprecht made a fabulous Kallstadter Saumagen Scheu Spätlese halbtrocken that likely would have worked. Alas, I believe the vines were ripped up.
 
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