help me pick a barolo

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
I am, however, firmly against drinking Bartolo Mascarello young. Not because I have a history of what the experience is like. Just because.
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I would have said the same until last October. We had lunch at Brezza's restaurant and they offered the 2016 for 120. That was too hard to resist. It turned out the 16 was gone and they offered the 2017, which might have been a good thing given the different vintage characteristics. This bottle was a real pleasure to drink and our plan to take half of it home to see how it evolves was upended before we even got our main course.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
I shall enjoy a Barolo on release because it is now more mellow by way of being less extracted, and is more of a fruit bomb than ever before. I shall do so in fear of repercussions for deviating from the new party line. I shall drink the young Barolo for its newly acquired appeal, even though it will display none of its characteristic complexity that compels me to spend hard-earned currency in the first place. I shall confront the error of my ways in treating Nabokov's Lolita as merely a fictional text, and shall interpret it as a party-approved wine drinker's guide to Piedmont.
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The climate has changed. It isn't about compelling your aesthetic preferences one way or another, or enforcing a viewpoint. It is actually a much bigger issue than that. The climate is different now. The wines you are thinking about are being made in less quantity. Different wines are being made today than were being made prior to the 1980s. Total acidities in the Alto Piemonte in this last harvest were about half of the typical numbers of years past. Some producers are using reverse osmosis to reduce alcohol levels in the Alto Piemonte. In the Alto Piemonte. Let that sink in.

This isn't about groupthink, this is about a different climate reality. Sorry you feel persecuted by the messenger here, but am I not compelling you to spend your money in any way whatsoever. Go ahead and give these new bottles 40 years and see what happens.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Total acidities in the Alto Piemonte in this last harvest were about half of the typical numbers of years past. Some producers are using reverse osmosis to reduce alcohol levels in the Alto Piemonte. In the Alto Piemonte. Let that sink in.
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Eek. That is very scary. I have not drunk a lot of young Alto Piemonte lately so I have to ask: do they still taste like nebbiolo from a steep hillside or are they overwhelmed with sugar and glycerol and surmaturite?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Total acidities in the Alto Piemonte in this last harvest were about half of the typical numbers of years past. Some producers are using reverse osmosis to reduce alcohol levels in the Alto Piemonte. In the Alto Piemonte. Let that sink in.
Click to expand...
Eek. That is very scary. I have not drunk a lot of young Alto Piemonte lately so I have to ask: do they still taste like nebbiolo from a steep hillside or are they overwhelmed with sugar and glycerol and surmaturite?
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Agree. Wonder if this happened only in the last vintage? Would be curious to see data from a producer about TAs over the last decade. I have drunk a number of them young and found decent balance. The difference, to my mind, is that the tannins are ripe due to climate change there and elsewhere, whereas that was generally not true in the 70s and 80s in Alto Piemonte.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:

The climate has changed.
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coincidentally (but hardly, really) a friend here in Beaune has just attempted to prove the same by blinding me with 2020 leflaive pucelles. To be discussed in another thread.
 
originally posted by georg lauer:
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
I am, however, firmly against drinking Bartolo Mascarello young. Not because I have a history of what the experience is like. Just because.
Click to expand...

I would have said the same until last October. We had lunch at Brezza's restaurant and they offered the 2016 for 120. That was too hard to resist. It turned out the 16 was gone and they offered the 2017, which might have been a good thing given the different vintage characteristics. This bottle was a real pleasure to drink and our plan to take half of it home to see how it evolves was upended before we even got our main course.
Click to expand...

Agree. I would have said the same regarding the wines Bartolo made. I've had my share of his wines end of the 80ies and in the 90ies. Young, rather painful experiences. The 1996 from magnum last march was showing glimpses of becoming accessible.

Not so with the wines Maria Teresa is making nowadays. I had the 2015 and the 2016 several times now. The 2016 is just gorgeous. Sure it will age, but a pity to miss in its youth. Sadly, prices on secondary markets have gone nuts.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
I shall enjoy a Barolo on release because it is now more mellow by way of being less extracted, and is more of a fruit bomb than ever before. I shall do so in fear of repercussions for deviating from the new party line. I shall drink the young Barolo for its newly acquired appeal, even though it will display none of its characteristic complexity that compels me to spend hard-earned currency in the first place. I shall confront the error of my ways in treating Nabokov's Lolita as merely a fictional text, and shall interpret it as a party-approved wine drinker's guide to Piedmont.
Click to expand...

The climate has changed. It isn't about compelling your aesthetic preferences one way or another, or enforcing a viewpoint. It is actually a much bigger issue than that. The climate is different now. The wines you are thinking about are being made in less quantity. Different wines are being made today than were being made prior to the 1980s. Total acidities in the Alto Piemonte in this last harvest were about half of the typical numbers of years past. Some producers are using reverse osmosis to reduce alcohol levels in the Alto Piemonte. In the Alto Piemonte. Let that sink in.

This isn't about groupthink, this is about a different climate reality. Sorry you feel persecuted by the messenger here, but am I not compelling you to spend your money in any way whatsoever. Go ahead and give these new bottles 40 years and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Climate has changed, and so has viticulture and vinification, as you stated in a post above. The vineyards are much more taken care of, healthier, less herbicides. More inerbimento/green between the lines. I was surprised how accessible and elegant many Barolo were compared to 25 ago, but also how polished. It seems as if also in the cellar many things have changed. Even if most things have remained unchanged with the "new" generations at Rinaldi or B. Mascarello, I would guess extraction and elevage is done differently by the daughters-but in a positive way.

I think you miss a lot by not touching a bottle of Barolo before 30 years. I remember a bottle of 1989 Monprivato in 2000 in Ristorante Belvedere that was singing - It would be a pity to miss it in that stage. Or Rinaldis 1997 Le Coste/Brunate. I went through half a case between 2008-2012, a treat and again a pity to miss.

On the other hand, I find Burlottos wines have lost the elegance they had in the 90ies and early 2000. A 2013 Monvigliero recently was dark and clumsy, but to be fair, 2013 are in a difficult stage to taste right now.
 
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