Brezeme CDR Question.....

Bill Lundstrom

Bill Lundstrom

Bill Lundstrom
Would a mag of 2008 need to be left upright for a couple days or can i just pull from the cellar and pop the cork for dinner tonight?
Thanks for any insight.
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
Brezeme CDR Question.....Would a mag of 2008 need to be left upright for a couple days or can i just pull from the cellar and pop the cork for dinner tonight?
Thanks for any insight.
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if the mag is stored horizontally, and you own a cradle or can conjure a makeshift one that fits a mag, then transferring it carefully in its original orientation, without rotation or lifting, and resting at just enough of an angle to be able to pull the cork without spilling is by far the best option in my experience. When decanting with a flashlight, I've been able to get considerably more clear wine out this way than from bottles that have been standing for a while. There is some additional benefit to standing them first, prior to resting horizontally for at least a couple of weeks, but relatively insignificant.
 
Hopefully, you have stored the bottle so that you know which side is up -- i.e. always store bottles with the label up. Then decant carefully over a candle keeping that same side of the bottle facing up.

Then, you will be fine.

. . . . . . Pete
 
Thanks for the advice. I think i'll let it stand for a few days and drink later in the week. I feel like this wine, most likely, needs to be drunk soon.
 
As soon as you start pouring a bottle, it's on its side, so it's hard to see the advantage of standing it up first vs. leaving it on its side and pouring carefully as Pavel describes.

If the question was "just how much sediment does this specific wine have" I'm no help though.
 
Bill, yes 2008 is starting to decline a bit at least from 75cl.
Others advises concerning sediment make total sense.

Considering the state of the 2008 harvest (poor ripeness and insane botrytis) , it is still a mystery to me that this wine held up for that long...
 
originally posted by Brézème:
Bill, yes 2008 is starting to decline a bit at least from 75cl.
Others advises concerning sediment make total sense.

Considering the state of the 2008 harvest (poor ripeness and insane botrytis) , it is still a mystery to me that this wine held up for that long...
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Thank you Eric. I'll post a note when i drink it.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
As soon as you start pouring a bottle, it's on its side, so it's hard to see the advantage of standing it up first vs. leaving it on its side and pouring carefully as Pavel describes.

If the question was "just how much sediment does this specific wine have" I'm no help though.
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stand it up at an angle with the label forward so that sediment collects in the backside. this will maximize the amount of wine that pours clean.
 
Nice tips, but I don’t think I’ve used a candle for decanting since they installed a flashlight on iPhones. Steadier, brighter light source.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
As soon as you start pouring a bottle, it's on its side, so it's hard to see the advantage of standing it up first vs. leaving it on its side and pouring carefully as Pavel describes.

If the question was "just how much sediment does this specific wine have" I'm no help though.
Click to expand...

stand it up at an angle with the label forward so that sediment collects in the backside. this will maximize the amount of wine that pours clean.
Click to expand...

Robert, would i pour the wine with label up also? And try and keep the bottle at the same angle even when pulling the cork?
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
As soon as you start pouring a bottle, it's on its side, so it's hard to see the advantage of standing it up first vs. leaving it on its side and pouring carefully as Pavel describes.

If the question was "just how much sediment does this specific wine have" I'm no help though.
Click to expand...

stand it up at an angle with the label forward so that sediment collects in the backside. this will maximize the amount of wine that pours clean.
Click to expand...

Robert, would i pour the wine with label up also? And try and keep the bottle at the same angle even when pulling the cork?
Click to expand...

i stand it up i'd say about 70 degrees (est.) first giving the bottle a few quick twists to loosen any sediment that will loosen from the side of the bottle and fall to the bottom. all the loose sediment will collect at the bottom opposite the label. when ready to open i stand the bottle upright and open, then pour label side up over a light source and stop when the sediment reaches the neck. since all loose sediment has gone to the bottom of the bottle opposite the label all that is needed is to pour gently and evenly.
 
I've never had stuck sediment separate during careful decanting. This does not imply that it hasn't happened to others, but I can only speak to my own experience. The only thing I've ever had to worry about is the loose stuff, and the finer it is the more seriously I take the procedure. ( This is why old Nebbiolo requires twice or thrice the rest time of Bordeaux or Burgundy.)

IME the less movement in any direction, the better. They make cradles to give you a perfect angle, i.e. the minimum angle required for lifting the neck of the bottle from its rest position, so that wine does not spill when you pull the cork. Just measured mine and it's just under 20 degrees.

Good luck!
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
I've never had stuck sediment separate during careful decanting. This does not imply that it hasn't happened to others, but I can only speak to my own experience. The only thing I've ever had to worry about is the loose stuff, and the finer it is the more seriously I take the procedure. ( This is why old Nebbiolo requires twice or thrice the rest time of Bordeaux or Burgundy.)

IME the less movement in any direction, the better. They make cradles to give you a perfect angle, i.e. the minimum angle required for lifting the neck of the bottle from its rest position, so that wine does not spill when you pull the cork. Just measured mine and it's just under 20 degrees.

Good luck!
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if the sediment that is lying on the bottom wide of the bottle is not attached, it will fall quite willingly to the bottom once the bottle is erect. a couple twists will encourage this action.

cradles are great for the very old stuff and have their place, but over fiddly when not needed. and you likely need a butler to operate one.
 
Not sure what you mean, Robert. It’s easy to move from horizontal to cradled position slowly (adiabatically), to avoid disturbance, and gravity and the bottle shape (shoulder) serve as your friend when decanting that way. Been doing it for years and rarely stand bottles up any more.

I also have a shelf in my small wine fridge at home that is at an angle of about 30 degrees and that’s nominally better if I want to prep a bottle in advance at close to the cradle angle, but I honestly haven’t noticed a difference.

Nothing fiddly or complicated about a cradle.

But I’ve also decanted without one from a horizontal position, and that still requires tilting the bottle slowly to an angle sufficient to extract the cork without spilling everywhere. Hence the benefit of the cradle to do that work for you.
 
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).

* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
 
originally posted by robert ames:

if the sediment that is lying on the bottom wide of the bottle is not attached, it will fall quite willingly to the bottom once the bottle is erect. a couple twists will encourage this action.
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Yes, if Bill has a couple of weeks. I don't believe he does.

In addition, even if settled, decanting from a vertical position kicks up the sediment more than form a horizontal. Sometimes, surprisingly so.

If it seems like I am beating a dead horse, it's because Eric's 08 is something I would care about. It's likely somewhat on the edge and no longer purely fruit dominant. As such, it should be treated as older than it's age would indicate, and can be thrown off balance disproportionately if mistreated, i.e. does not get the benefit of the anal voodoo (tm) treatment. Don't care about the chunks and dregs that much; worst case is you can see them in the glass and avoid them. It's the fine granular stuff that you can barely see (and that has earned Larry's loyalty to his iPhone) that is trouble: it will stunt aromatics, add bitterness, and will make the wine seem a lot older and even faux-oxidized.

p.s. Oswaldo, you are right. About most things. Just not this.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
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Actually, any kind of mesh mechanical filter won't help with the very fine stuff Pavel refers to unless you are using some sort of additional filtration material (e.g., several layers of damp cheesecloth). Still, easier to just decant properly for the best result.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).

* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
Click to expand...

The whole point is to get rid of sediment, which is actual dregs—solids that form in red wine over time in the bottle. What’s the difference in your view? Particle size?

I’m also not sure how empirically verifiable and verified differences to many of us in enjoyment of wines with and without sediment makes efforts to remove such sediment voodoo. I don’t have a filter that will trap down to the particulate size I want. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to go from horizontal storage position to fully decanted wine, and the high end there is about persnickety old corks, not the actual decant process.

You are similarly and vocally intolerant of VA at minute levels. I don’t recall anyone being pejorative about your preference there even though many of us consider a little VA to add complexity and vibrancy to certain wines.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).

* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
Click to expand...

The whole point is to get rid of sediment, which is actual dregs—solids that form in red wine over time in the bottle. What’s the difference in your view? Particle size?

I’m also not sure how empirically verifiable and verified differences to many of us in enjoyment of wines with and without sediment makes efforts to remove such sediment voodoo. I don’t have a filter that will trap down to the particulate size I want. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to go from horizontal storage position to fully decanted wine, and the high end there is about persnickety old corks, not the actual decant process.

You are similarly and vocally intolerant of VA at minute levels. I don’t recall anyone being pejorative about your preference there even though many of us consider a little VA to add complexity and vibrancy to certain wines.
Click to expand...

Yes, I meant particle size. I only truly object to the "larger" stuff that my thimble mostly removes. The other, minute (to me) stuff I consider part & parcel.

Btw, I am only completely intolerant of ethyl acetate (aka nail polish remover), and am frequently ok with acetic acid (venegary VA) at condimental levels.

And I certainly didn't mean to put a damper on the male fetishistic impulse on the bored. How could I, when it is so racinated? I merely meant to comment on its unanimity and my odd imperviousness. After all, men make great stamp collectors, model rain hobbyists, model airplane assemblers. There's something about the way men take to their hobbies that I find meticulous to fault (and may explain why so few women engage in them). But, as I said, that's just me.
 
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