Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I, too, think that the concern about sediment is overgeeking. In fact, there are people, Aubert de Villaine and Lalou Bize-Leroy famously among them, who love the taste of sediment.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Brezeme CDR Question.....
- Thread starter Bill Lundstrom
- Start date
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
With exceptions like old Barolo, I stand up a bottle a day in advance. I can’t be bothered with the angle thing. It would be interesting to do a A/B comparison between both methods and blind taste.
When it’s just me and my wife at home, my decanter is a 1L flat bottom boiling flask. A tool that has come in very handy is the Rabbit mesh strainer.
With 45 years of wine geekdom under my belt and having drunk a ton of older wines, especially when I was ITB in the mid 80s, nothing like this was ever discussed. You stood a bottle up and decanted it. Again, there were exceptions like 40-60 year old red Burgundy. I was told to never decant, just pour carefully.
When it’s just me and my wife at home, my decanter is a 1L flat bottom boiling flask. A tool that has come in very handy is the Rabbit mesh strainer.
With 45 years of wine geekdom under my belt and having drunk a ton of older wines, especially when I was ITB in the mid 80s, nothing like this was ever discussed. You stood a bottle up and decanted it. Again, there were exceptions like 40-60 year old red Burgundy. I was told to never decant, just pour carefully.
originally posted by Larry Stein:
With exceptions like old Barolo, I stand up a bottle a day in advance. I can’t be bothered with the angle thing. It would be interesting to do a A/B comparison between both methods and blind taste.
When it’s just me and my wife at home, my decanter is a 1L flat bottom boiling flask. A tool that has come in very handy is the Rabbit mesh strainer.
With 45 years of wine geekdom under my belt and having drunk a ton of older wines, especially when I was ITB in the mid 80s, nothing like this was ever discussed. You stood a bottle up and decanted it. Again, there were exceptions like 40-60 year old red Burgundy. I was told to never decant, just pour carefully.
I think the idea of a double blind tasting of two bottles, one carefully decanted and the other stood up and poured directly, would be very instructive. The trouble with doing this with older wines is the issue of bottle variation.
Mark Lipton
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
Obviously, I wasn’t clear. I’d want both bottles decanted, one from the angle position and one from the bottle that was standing up. Bottle variation would be an issue, no doubt.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).
* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
The whole point is to get rid of sediment, which is actual dregs—solids that form in red wine over time in the bottle. What’s the difference in your view? Particle size?
I’m also not sure how empirically verifiable and verified differences to many of us in enjoyment of wines with and without sediment makes efforts to remove such sediment voodoo. I don’t have a filter that will trap down to the particulate size I want. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to go from horizontal storage position to fully decanted wine, and the high end there is about persnickety old corks, not the actual decant process.
You are similarly and vocally intolerant of VA at minute levels. I don’t recall anyone being pejorative about your preference there even though many of us consider a little VA to add complexity and vibrancy to certain wines.
Yes, I meant particle size. I only truly object to the "larger" stuff that my thimble mostly removes. The other, minute (to me) stuff I consider part & parcel.
Btw, I am only completely intolerant of ethyl acetate (aka nail polish remover), and am frequently ok with acetic acid (venegary VA) at condimental levels.
And I certainly didn't mean to put a damper on the male fetishistic impulse on the bored. How could I, when it is so racinated? I merely meant to comment on its unanimity and my odd imperviousness. After all, men make great stamp collectors, model rain hobbyists, model airplane assemblers. There's something about the way men take to their hobbies that I find meticulous to fault (and may explain why so few women engage in them). But, as I said, that's just me.
Do you also take your own, very fine-grained attention to whether a wine is in all ways natural, to be male fetishistic, or does that just apply to hobbies you don't engage in? For the record, I'm with you on decanting, though since my non-wine geek friends consider my decanting and tasting a wine to make sure it isn't corked before I serve it to be impossibly finicky, I don't think I really am in any position to so characterize the hobby horses of others.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).
* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
The whole point is to get rid of sediment, which is actual dregs—solids that form in red wine over time in the bottle. What’s the difference in your view? Particle size?
I’m also not sure how empirically verifiable and verified differences to many of us in enjoyment of wines with and without sediment makes efforts to remove such sediment voodoo. I don’t have a filter that will trap down to the particulate size I want. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to go from horizontal storage position to fully decanted wine, and the high end there is about persnickety old corks, not the actual decant process.
You are similarly and vocally intolerant of VA at minute levels. I don’t recall anyone being pejorative about your preference there even though many of us consider a little VA to add complexity and vibrancy to certain wines.
Yes, I meant particle size. I only truly object to the "larger" stuff that my thimble mostly removes. The other, minute (to me) stuff I consider part & parcel.
Btw, I am only completely intolerant of ethyl acetate (aka nail polish remover), and am frequently ok with acetic acid (venegary VA) at condimental levels.
And I certainly didn't mean to put a damper on the male fetishistic impulse on the bored. How could I, when it is so racinated? I merely meant to comment on its unanimity and my odd imperviousness. After all, men make great stamp collectors, model rain hobbyists, model airplane assemblers. There's something about the way men take to their hobbies that I find meticulous to fault (and may explain why so few women engage in them). But, as I said, that's just me.
Do you also take your own, very fine-grained attention to whether a wine is in all ways natural, to be male fetishistic, or does that just apply to hobbies you don't engage in? For the record, I'm with you on decanting, though since my non-wine geek friends consider my decanting and tasting a wine to make sure it isn't corked before I serve it to be impossibly finicky, I don't think I really am in any position to so characterize the hobby horses of others.
I am also vulnerable to the male fetishistic impulse, and used to be more so about how natural a wine was before my trip to Scandinavia. Plus I used to be a stamp collector, though not a finicky one.
Because I share the impulse, I try to use a mental wire mesh strainer to filter out what appears to be anal voodoo. As you suggest, "what appears” is assailable.
As far as decanting, if a wine seems closed, I will decant to aerate, hoping it might become more expressive; I just don't have the impulse to decant to make its appearance crystalline.
Though I don’t go to the lengths that others here do, I decant for reasons that only tangentially concern appearance. I find that suspended sediment changes the flavor of wine, and not in a good way. That’s hardly surprising since they mostly consist of polymerized tannins and retain much of their bitterness. It’s the same reason I prefer filtered coffee to French press: coffee grounds decrease my enjoyment of the coffee.originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).
* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
The whole point is to get rid of sediment, which is actual dregs—solids that form in red wine over time in the bottle. What’s the difference in your view? Particle size?
I’m also not sure how empirically verifiable and verified differences to many of us in enjoyment of wines with and without sediment makes efforts to remove such sediment voodoo. I don’t have a filter that will trap down to the particulate size I want. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to go from horizontal storage position to fully decanted wine, and the high end there is about persnickety old corks, not the actual decant process.
You are similarly and vocally intolerant of VA at minute levels. I don’t recall anyone being pejorative about your preference there even though many of us consider a little VA to add complexity and vibrancy to certain wines.
Yes, I meant particle size. I only truly object to the "larger" stuff that my thimble mostly removes. The other, minute (to me) stuff I consider part & parcel.
Btw, I am only completely intolerant of ethyl acetate (aka nail polish remover), and am frequently ok with acetic acid (venegary VA) at condimental levels.
And I certainly didn't mean to put a damper on the male fetishistic impulse on the bored. How could I, when it is so racinated? I merely meant to comment on its unanimity and my odd imperviousness. After all, men make great stamp collectors, model rain hobbyists, model airplane assemblers. There's something about the way men take to their hobbies that I find meticulous to fault (and may explain why so few women engage in them). But, as I said, that's just me.
Do you also take your own, very fine-grained attention to whether a wine is in all ways natural, to be male fetishistic, or does that just apply to hobbies you don't engage in? For the record, I'm with you on decanting, though since my non-wine geek friends consider my decanting and tasting a wine to make sure it isn't corked before I serve it to be impossibly finicky, I don't think I really am in any position to so characterize the hobby horses of others.
I am also vulnerable to the male fetishistic impulse, and used to be more so about how natural a wine was before my trip to Scandinavia. Plus I used to be a stamp collector, though not a finicky one.
Because I share the impulse, I try to use a mental wire mesh strainer to filter out what appears to be anal voodoo. As you suggest, "what appears” is assailable.
As far as decanting, if a wine seems closed, I will decant to aerate, hoping it might become more expressive; I just don't have the impulse to decant to make its appearance crystalline.
Mark Lipton
Peter Creasey
Peter Creasey
Mark, I agree with you except I don't have any reasons that even "tangentially concern appearance". My only concerns are flavor and preferring not to deal with the sediment that can be a nuisance even after careful pouring when the bottle is almost empty.
. . . . . Pete
. . . . . Pete
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by MLipton:
Though I don’t go to the lengths that others here do, I decant for reasons that only tangentially concern appearance. I find that suspended sediment changes the flavor of wine, and not in a good way. That’s hardly surprising since they mostly consist of polymerized tannins and retain much of their bitterness. It’s the same reason I prefer filtered coffee to French press: coffee grounds decrease my enjoyment of the coffee.originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).
* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
The whole point is to get rid of sediment, which is actual dregs—solids that form in red wine over time in the bottle. What’s the difference in your view? Particle size?
I’m also not sure how empirically verifiable and verified differences to many of us in enjoyment of wines with and without sediment makes efforts to remove such sediment voodoo. I don’t have a filter that will trap down to the particulate size I want. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to go from horizontal storage position to fully decanted wine, and the high end there is about persnickety old corks, not the actual decant process.
You are similarly and vocally intolerant of VA at minute levels. I don’t recall anyone being pejorative about your preference there even though many of us consider a little VA to add complexity and vibrancy to certain wines.
Yes, I meant particle size. I only truly object to the "larger" stuff that my thimble mostly removes. The other, minute (to me) stuff I consider part & parcel.
Btw, I am only completely intolerant of ethyl acetate (aka nail polish remover), and am frequently ok with acetic acid (venegary VA) at condimental levels.
And I certainly didn't mean to put a damper on the male fetishistic impulse on the bored. How could I, when it is so racinated? I merely meant to comment on its unanimity and my odd imperviousness. After all, men make great stamp collectors, model rain hobbyists, model airplane assemblers. There's something about the way men take to their hobbies that I find meticulous to fault (and may explain why so few women engage in them). But, as I said, that's just me.
Do you also take your own, very fine-grained attention to whether a wine is in all ways natural, to be male fetishistic, or does that just apply to hobbies you don't engage in? For the record, I'm with you on decanting, though since my non-wine geek friends consider my decanting and tasting a wine to make sure it isn't corked before I serve it to be impossibly finicky, I don't think I really am in any position to so characterize the hobby horses of others.
I am also vulnerable to the male fetishistic impulse, and used to be more so about how natural a wine was before my trip to Scandinavia. Plus I used to be a stamp collector, though not a finicky one.
Because I share the impulse, I try to use a mental wire mesh strainer to filter out what appears to be anal voodoo. As you suggest, "what appears” is assailable.
As far as decanting, if a wine seems closed, I will decant to aerate, hoping it might become more expressive; I just don't have the impulse to decant to make its appearance crystalline.
Mark Lipton
Interesting. Whenever we visited Arab states back in my finance days, I always had the hardest time drinking Turkish coffee because of the grounds playing everywhere. Though I suppose that those who regularly drink it don't mind them.
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Mark, I agree with you except I don't have any reasons that even "tangentially concern appearance". My only concerns are flavor and preferring not to deal with the sediment that can be a nuisance even after careful pouring when the bottle is almost empty.
. . . . . Pete
As I mentioned above, the Rabbit fine mesh stainless steel filter works very well with the wine remaining after the initial decant.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Larry Stein:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Mark, I agree with you except I don't have any reasons that even "tangentially concern appearance". My only concerns are flavor and preferring not to deal with the sediment that can be a nuisance even after careful pouring when the bottle is almost empty.
. . . . . Pete
As I mentioned above, the Rabbit fine mesh stainless steel filter works very well with the wine remaining after the initial decant.
Is Rabbit the brand? Does it come in a thimble shape, or is it a sheet?
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
Peter Creasey
Peter Creasey
I seem to recall there being some wine insight that filters might tend to eviscerate the wine. Mistakenly or otherwise, I have always pretty much stayed away from using filters.
. . . . . . Pete
. . . . . . Pete
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Larry Stein:
Rabbit is the brand. It’s 2 pieces, aerator and strainer. They can be used together or separately. Apologies for the long link. I can’t figure out how to copy a hyperlink here with an iPad.
Loading…
www.amazon.com
Thanks, I just ordered one. Not for the aerator, for the filter, because mine still lets some smallish particles through.
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
originally posted by MLipton:
Though I don’t go to the lengths that others here do, I decant for reasons that only tangentially concern appearance. I find that suspended sediment changes the flavor of wine, and not in a good way. That’s hardly surprising since they mostly consist of polymerized tannins and retain much of their bitterness. It’s the same reason I prefer filtered coffee to French press: coffee grounds decrease my enjoyment of the coffee.originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I find this all tremendously finnicky, since I never perform any of this anal voodoo* and the wines taste great when they're on form. But since I seem to be in a minority of one, at some point I will have my head examined (for loose sediment).
* with the exception of those (few) wines with actual dregs, which I filter with a fine mesh thimble
The whole point is to get rid of sediment, which is actual dregs—solids that form in red wine over time in the bottle. What’s the difference in your view? Particle size?
I’m also not sure how empirically verifiable and verified differences to many of us in enjoyment of wines with and without sediment makes efforts to remove such sediment voodoo. I don’t have a filter that will trap down to the particulate size I want. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to go from horizontal storage position to fully decanted wine, and the high end there is about persnickety old corks, not the actual decant process.
You are similarly and vocally intolerant of VA at minute levels. I don’t recall anyone being pejorative about your preference there even though many of us consider a little VA to add complexity and vibrancy to certain wines.
Yes, I meant particle size. I only truly object to the "larger" stuff that my thimble mostly removes. The other, minute (to me) stuff I consider part & parcel.
Btw, I am only completely intolerant of ethyl acetate (aka nail polish remover), and am frequently ok with acetic acid (venegary VA) at condimental levels.
And I certainly didn't mean to put a damper on the male fetishistic impulse on the bored. How could I, when it is so racinated? I merely meant to comment on its unanimity and my odd imperviousness. After all, men make great stamp collectors, model rain hobbyists, model airplane assemblers. There's something about the way men take to their hobbies that I find meticulous to fault (and may explain why so few women engage in them). But, as I said, that's just me.
Do you also take your own, very fine-grained attention to whether a wine is in all ways natural, to be male fetishistic, or does that just apply to hobbies you don't engage in? For the record, I'm with you on decanting, though since my non-wine geek friends consider my decanting and tasting a wine to make sure it isn't corked before I serve it to be impossibly finicky, I don't think I really am in any position to so characterize the hobby horses of others.
I am also vulnerable to the male fetishistic impulse, and used to be more so about how natural a wine was before my trip to Scandinavia. Plus I used to be a stamp collector, though not a finicky one.
Because I share the impulse, I try to use a mental wire mesh strainer to filter out what appears to be anal voodoo. As you suggest, "what appears” is assailable.
As far as decanting, if a wine seems closed, I will decant to aerate, hoping it might become more expressive; I just don't have the impulse to decant to make its appearance crystalline.
Mark Lipton
Like Pete, I don’t care about appearance. Otherwise, I agree 100%.
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
I seem to recall there being some wine insight that filters might tend to eviscerate the wine. Mistakenly or otherwise, I have always pretty much stayed away from using filters.
. . . . . . Pete
I should think that would be an easy experiment to try at home. Decant part of a bottle without a filter, part with. Taste blind.
Peter Creasey
Peter Creasey
Larry, reasonable assertion -- except...
#1) I'm not sure my atrophied palate could distinguish a distinction; and
#2) It would be a shame to waste part of the wine with such an experiment.
. . . . . . Pete
#1) I'm not sure my atrophied palate could distinguish a distinction; and
#2) It would be a shame to waste part of the wine with such an experiment.
. . . . . . Pete
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
It doesn’t have to be an expensive bottle.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Larry, should Pete continue to use the wine magnet on both pours, or just the unfiltered one?
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
Awesome thread drift, Oswaldo. I'm with you on EA. But I am also pretty intolerant of VA over the merely suggestive level.originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Btw, I am only completely intolerant of ethyl acetate (aka nail polish remover), and am frequently ok with acetic acid (venegary VA) at condimental levels.
And I certainly didn't mean to put a damper on the male fetishistic impulse on the bored. How could I, when it is so racinated? I merely meant to comment on its unanimity and my odd imperviousness. After all, men make great stamp collectors, model rain hobbyists, model airplane assemblers. There's something about the way men take to their hobbies that I find meticulous to fault (and may explain why so few women engage in them). But, as I said, that's just me.