Brezeme CDR Question.....

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
It's the fine granular stuff that you can barely see (and that has earned Larry's loyalty to his iPhone) that is trouble: it will stunt aromatics, add bitterness, and will make the wine seem a lot older and even faux-oxidized.
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No chemist I, but why would fine sediment stunt aromas? I think of it, maybe mistakenly, as non-volatile, bound up, precipitated and more or less out of the picture in terms of chemical activity.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Larry Stein:
It doesn’t have to be an expensive bottle.
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There was quite a bit of sediment in a 2006 Yellowtail Merlot I experienced recently. No, really.
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the perfect example of why to decent off of the sediment: it was toxic and loaded with grape growth hormone.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
It's the fine granular stuff that you can barely see (and that has earned Larry's loyalty to his iPhone) that is trouble: it will stunt aromatics, add bitterness, and will make the wine seem a lot older and even faux-oxidized.
Click to expand...
No chemist I, but why would fine sediment stunt aromas? I think of it, maybe mistakenly, as non-volatile, bound up, precipitated and more or less out of the picture in terms of chemical activity.
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+1

Of course, Pavel's contention, if borne out, would justify the maneuvers I've been critiquing. But I find it hard to believe that separation from sediment that has been in contact with the liquid for such a long time will suddenly, upon removal from contact, have much impact on the aroma and flavor of the liquid part. Our remaining chemist will, hopefully, clarify (no pun intended).
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

I seem to recall there being some wine insight that filters might tend to eviscerate the wine. Mistakenly or otherwise, I have always pretty much stayed away from using filters.

. . . . . . Pete
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I should think that would be an easy experiment to try at home. Decant part of a bottle without a filter, part with. Taste blind.
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I wonder if Pete is confusing filtering as part of making the wine--which many people think does strip flavor--and pouring wine through a metal filter as part of decanting. I can't think why that would strip a wine (certainly not more than infinitesimally so). In any case, in a limited sense, I have done the experiment frequently when I have taking a small taste out of the bottle to decide what to do and if it is corked, and then after decanting through a metal filter. The taste changes of course (why would I do it if it didn't?) but for the better (why would I do it otherwise?) and doesn't taste stripped.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

I, too, think that the concern about sediment is overgeeking. In fact, there are people, Aubert de Villaine and Lalou Bize-Leroy famously among them, who love the taste of sediment.
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I believe Joe Heitz was of the same opinion.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

I, too, think that the concern about sediment is overgeeking. In fact, there are people, Aubert de Villaine and Lalou Bize-Leroy famously among them, who love the taste of sediment.
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I believe Joe Heitz was of the same opinion.
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Yeah, but his wines did not have much sediment as they were fined and filtered.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

I, too, think that the concern about sediment is overgeeking. In fact, there are people, Aubert de Villaine and Lalou Bize-Leroy famously among them, who love the taste of sediment.
Click to expand...
I believe Joe Heitz was of the same opinion.
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Yeah, but his wines did not have much sediment as they were fined and filtered.
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I decant the older reds of Lopez de Heredia, Rioja Alta, and to a large extent Bodegas Riojanas in the same manner as other reds mostly as a matter of habit. Evidence collected from decanting these wines of Rioja (Spain) at increments of 5 degrees in the 0-to-90 degree range to the surface has yielded very little variation in enjoyment of the actual wine. Mainly, I can't justify investing time and resources in retraining my staff just for one, albeit significant region.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

I, too, think that the concern about sediment is overgeeking. In fact, there are people, Aubert de Villaine and Lalou Bize-Leroy famously among them, who love the taste of sediment.
Click to expand...
I believe Joe Heitz was of the same opinion.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but his wines did not have much sediment as they were fined and filtered.
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I can't justify investing time and resources in retraining my staff just for one, albeit significant region.
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What staff? You are kidding, right?
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

I, too, think that the concern about sediment is overgeeking. In fact, there are people, Aubert de Villaine and Lalou Bize-Leroy famously among them, who love the taste of sediment.
Click to expand...
I believe Joe Heitz was of the same opinion.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but his wines did not have much sediment as they were fined and filtered.
Click to expand...
I can't justify investing time and resources in retraining my staff just for one, albeit significant region.
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What staff? You are kidding, right?
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His staff fits perfectly into a small mirror at close range.
 
I stood the bottle up slightly angled back to let the sediment fall into the backside of the bottle per Robert's advice.

Opening tomorrow at a dinner for 10 wine geeks. We'll see how it shows.
 
That's all well and good, but there's no way to tell if it's going to taste better than a wine that was just stood up. All in all, I have my doubts.
 
It's the same wine, it won't *taste* any different. The only issue is whether one approach is going to get you a few extra dribbles of wine on the decant before the sediment comes. My gut tells me the angled rest probably makes the most sense on that front, but my gut also tells me that this is the sort of thing that guts are often wrong about. Tempted to give this a scientific test at some point with a dozen bottles filled with water and some sand.
 
Keith, I've spent the last year or two playing this game, prompted by an offline discussion along the same lines. Not a scientific test of course, since every bottle is different. That said, there appears to be some merit to standing up old bottles for a few days once they arrive, prior to storing them horizontally for one to six months (depending on variety, vintage, etc.), before proceeding as we have discussed. Not entirely conclusive; the benefits vs just going horizontal from the start are minor, if any. The vertical approach has been an utter failure by comparison: we are talking having to leave 1.5in of wine in the bottle on average vs as little as 1/4in.
 
Dunno. 2001 Cote Rotie (double decanted and transported to community table in new preston this summer ) was freaking awesome, and if anything got even better over dinner. Wrath of CEO & winemaker noted.
 
originally posted by VLM:
I should note that Eric has told me not to decant his wines. It makes him mad.
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You sure he wasn’t just winding you up? Gallic humor and all

Mark Lipton
 
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