TN: The Virtual Tasting #29 (January 26, 2023)

originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Pavel raises lots of good questions. I would be curious to hear a scientific explanation of what could turn people away from Riesling. In my non-scientific experience, sometimes it is the association with sweetness, other times it is an aversion to the high-acid frame, and other times it is a dislike for the flavor (scientists may know the exact components, but strikes me as something herbal at the core). Of course those latter two would not explain people who love Sancerre but detest Riesling, if they exist.

On the German front, I don't have comprehensive consumer research but I do think Riesling has undergone a slight 'renaissance' in Germany in recent years, perhaps bolstered by the warm vintages helping the dry wines along, rising quality, the word finally getting out, who knows. But, my impression is that weissburgunder and grauburgunder are still the leading domestic white wines for the non-geeks. They are so much 'easier' to open and drink at a fair price, without much contemplation.
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I can speak only for the one in my house, but she really doesn’t like the flavor profile, either the aromatics or the petrol notes that a lot of Trocken present. She does like Weissburgunder, Silvaner and Scheurebe, not we’re not totally adrift in Germany.

Mark Lipton
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Steph hasn't said flat out that she doesn't like Riesling, it's just my observation of forced choice preferences, Riesling always looses. She also asked me to pump the breaks on Riesling a while back when I was on something of a bender after a lot of new stuff became available in my market. I do think part of the problem is that we don't often eat food that is a match for Kabinett and Spätlese that I have.
 
Even though I have tasted many awesome Rieslings, I find, when I go to the cellar to pick something for the evening, that I tend to shy away from wines made from grapes that have a very distinctive flavor. For me Gewürz is number one and Riesling number two in that department. When Cab Franc is too typical, I don't like that so much also. I guess I prefer grapes that don't shout what they are. So maybe an alternative to the cilantro theory might be an obvious-typicity theory.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Even though I have tasted many awesome Rieslings, I find, when I go to the cellar to pick something for the evening, that I tend to shy away from wines made from grapes that have a very distinctive flavor. For me Gewürz is number one and Riesling number two in that department. When Cab Franc is too typical, I don't like that so much also. I guess I prefer grapes that don't shout what they are. So maybe an alternative to the cilantro theory might be an obvious-typicity theory.
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I've heard it said, by Aubert de Villaine (I think) and probably others, that Chardonnay is essentially neutral, so a great grape for highlighting terroir.
 
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Even though I have tasted many awesome Rieslings, I find, when I go to the cellar to pick something for the evening, that I tend to shy away from wines made from grapes that have a very distinctive flavor. For me Gewürz is number one and Riesling number two in that department. When Cab Franc is too typical, I don't like that so much also. I guess I prefer grapes that don't shout what they are. So maybe an alternative to the cilantro theory might be an obvious-typicity theory.
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I've heard it said, by Aubert de Villaine (I think) and probably others, that Chardonnay is essentially neutral, so a great grape for highlighting terroir.
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I thought of mentioning that the less imposing the grape, the more the terroir shines through, but Riesling is (I believe) extremely terroir-sensitive, so I didn't want to open a can o'worms.

But mebbe being very terroir sensitive is not tantamount to being an ideal vehicle for terroir expression.
 
“But mebbe being very terroir sensitive is not tantamount to being an ideal vehicle for terroir expression.”

Gonna have to think about that one.
 
Leaving aside the tired old tropes about people having flashbacks to Blue Nun, I think the reason some people avoid riesling is exactly because of its high acidity. Think about what sells: plush, glyceral cabs and chards with lots of fruit. There is no premium on acidity (nor minerality).
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Even though I have tasted many awesome Rieslings, I find, when I go to the cellar to pick something for the evening, that I tend to shy away from wines made from grapes that have a very distinctive flavor. For me Gewürz is number one and Riesling number two in that department...
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Interesting. I sort-of get what you're saying, although Gewurz, Sauvignon Blanc, Scheurebe, even Gruner and some others might seem more distinctive to me, in the sense that they have a narrower band of expression.

originally posted by VLM:
I do think part of the problem is that we don't often eat food that is a match for Kabinett and Spätlese that I have.
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Well there is dry Riesling, across the full spectrum of richness and intensity. But even off-dry, I find kabinett very food friendly, although perhaps that is more of a pescetarian thing!

That said, at the end of the day there is so much good wine from so many different grapes/regions, we can't all absolutely love and prioritize all of it! Not sure there's any more scientific explanation than that.

Although on the mass consumer side, plenty of room to analyze trends...
 
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Even though I have tasted many awesome Rieslings, I find, when I go to the cellar to pick something for the evening, that I tend to shy away from wines made from grapes that have a very distinctive flavor. For me Gewürz is number one and Riesling number two in that department. When Cab Franc is too typical, I don't like that so much also. I guess I prefer grapes that don't shout what they are. So maybe an alternative to the cilantro theory might be an obvious-typicity theory.
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I've heard it said, by Aubert de Villaine (I think) and probably others, that Chardonnay is essentially neutral, so a great grape for highlighting terroir.
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or Botrytis.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Why don’t I have more Riesling?
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Same reason that I don't... there's lots of other good things to drink, too!
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Agreed.
Curiously, Riesling, and specifically German Riesling, was how I got into wine.
Imperial Chateau opened several locations on the west coast of Florida in late ‘60’s and the owners loved fine German Riesling. Half the store was devoted to those wines and their knowledge was deep. I remember buying fine Rhine and Mosel wines for less than $10 - those same wines now are in the $100’s.
My brother and I set-up a little cellar in a closet and we aged some of them there. Several years ago we drank a magnum of Erbacher from the ‘70’s that he kept since purchase; fresh, youthful and complex.
My wife is not a fan of the grape, so that’s probably why I don’t buy them but, when I have them elsewhere, it takes me back and there are very few I don’t care for.
Nathan, well prior to his nuptials, opened a Donnhoff, Auslese that I got to taste and to this day I think about that wine - god wine.
Maybe I’ll experiment a little . . .
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Your experiment could be a visit north. Well maybe after the current cold snap. I have a lot of Riesling lined up here that I could foist on you.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:


#Eden1: Chateau Simone 2010 Palette Blanc - saline and savory and a little funky, definitely needs food, Jayson is guessing all over the SW and SE of France but never does choose Palette
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Au contraire. Simone was, in fact, my final guess. After all other possibilities had been eliminated, that was the only choice left.
 
Jayson,
That is very kind of you.
Once I am back in NC (likely in April) perhaps the thaw will be underway in the great north country. At least enough to let the foisting begin.
Best, Jim
 
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