New California Wine (TM) query

[Robert Dentice]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

It's funny -- thinking back 12 or 13 years, you'd see all these folks at Terroir in SF. Chris Brockway. Hardy Wallace. Laura from Inconnu. Their projects were just getting started, or hadn't begun yet. I remember thinking that they were brave, and it might not work out. I'm so glad it did. Those were special years, and Terroir was a special place. Nothing better than sitting at the bar there on a late Friday afternoon and having Joe Dougherty unexpectedly walk in, just off the plane. He'd say he could only stay for a bit, and then leave four or five hours later.

I used to spend a lot of time in Napa with Abe Schoener during the early days of Terroir. I would stop at Terroir on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning and load the car up with wine and head to Napa. Abe would have huge parties at his house filled with local winemakers and we would taste all of the wines. Tegan was a regular at those parties. It was so bizarre that I would fly in from NYC to drink mostly natural French wines in Napa as well as Austrian and German! This was before Hardy and that wave hit Napa. Can't believe Terrior is closed. I saw Chris in LA a few weeks ago and it we reminded me of many of those early Terrior days.

I would also add Terroir does not get nearly as much credit. I was surprised that Aaron did not give them much coverage in his book and focused more on the Oakland scene.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

It's funny -- thinking back 12 or 13 years, you'd see all these folks at Terroir in SF. Chris Brockway. Hardy Wallace. Laura from Inconnu. Their projects were just getting started, or hadn't begun yet. I remember thinking that they were brave, and it might not work out. I'm so glad it did. Those were special years, and Terroir was a special place. Nothing better than sitting at the bar there on a late Friday afternoon and having Joe Dougherty unexpectedly walk in, just off the plane. He'd say he could only stay for a bit, and then leave four or five hours later.

I used to spend a lot of time in Napa with Abe Schoener during the early days of Terroir. I would stop at Terroir on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning and load the car up with wine and head to Napa. Abe would have huge parties at his house filled with local winemakers and we would taste all of the wines. Tegan was a regular at those parties. It was so bizarre that I would fly in from NYC to drink mostly natural French wines in Napa as well as Austrian and German! This was before Hardy and that wave hit Napa. Can't believe Terrior is closed. I saw Chris in LA a few weeks ago and it we reminded me of many of those early Terrior days.

I would also add Terroir does not get nearly as much credit. I was surprised that Aaron did not give them much coverage in his book and focused more on the Oakland scene.

I live in Oakland, a block from Ordinaire. Terroir was the start of the natural wine movement in the Bay Area. Definitely in terms of wine bars and retail. And had a huge influence on winemaking as well. Guilhaume, Luc, and Dagan are the OGs. Still remember the first time I walked in there, the week they opened. Drank Puffeney. Drank my first Overnoy there. Brought them their first Cornelissen, back when the Contadino still had stuff floating in it.

I'm not that surprised at the omission, I guess. I heard a wine hipster podcast last week refer to Jaugaret as "mid." Ignorance.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by VLM:
Regular buy stuff
Hobo Wine Company & Folk Machine & Ghostwriter - Kenny is my homie
Broc - I don't buy these as much anymore but drink them whenever I get a chance, still love the Vine Starr Zinfandel
Ceritas - I prefer the Chardonnay, especially Heintz, but the Cabernet is insanely good
Bedrock Wine Co. - the Pagani is epic for me
Birichino - exactly what others have said
Beta - provisionally down with these, but have only tried two
Arnot-Roberts - very good across the board
Maître de Chai - love the Zinfandel

New(ish) to me
Fine Disregard Wine Co - they made a Sceales Grenache and I really like their Semillon, don't buy regularly
Claire Hill - have been meaning to try Claire's wines, finally grabbed some
Sandar & Hem - love Bates Ranch Cabernet so needed to try this
Reichwage Winery - they are the owners of Mancini Ranch, site of some great old bottles of Swan from my past have no idea if they're good
Jaimee Motley Wines - another PMR Cabernet

Do these count?
Once & Future Wine - these are like time traveling for me
Forman
Mayacamas Vineyards
Edmunds St. John

I thought of Ghostwriter, but knew you'd be on it. And you know those wines much better than I do. I'm impressed with them. Wish he still made Bates Cab. And Ahlgren Pinot.

I'm also provisionally down with Beta. Robert's a big fan and has spent time there, I think.

On the "Do These Count" -- I'd add Corison and Mount Eden. Classics.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by Florida Jim:
Jim,
Could you tell me more about Scar of the Sea?
The only one I haven’t heard of.

BTW, Ross Cobb is, indeed, a great guy but his Pinots that I’ve had (not many) have been a little high in VA.

Sorry to be slow, Jim. I second Eden's comments. The wines are basically from the new SLO Coast appellation and then some cool, unexpected old vineyards in southern California -- like the Cucamonga Valley. Nathan should try their Hofer Vineyard Grenache. It's in the idiom of the nice Sceales Grenaches that have been made. And the vineyard is nearby the Ontario Airport, which is so random and, well, evocative of the modern history of southern California. The Lopez Vineyard Zin from down there is cool too. Lightweight, aromatic, but substantial enough to reflect the variety.

I came to know the winery through the Syrahs -- starting with the Bassi. They reflect the ESJ aesthetic. Perhaps won't be so long lived (that's tough for anyone to pull off), but super interesting. I still lament that Steve didn't make more Bassetti Syrahs.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

It's funny -- thinking back 12 or 13 years, you'd see all these folks at Terroir in SF. Chris Brockway. Hardy Wallace. Laura from Inconnu. Their projects were just getting started, or hadn't begun yet. I remember thinking that they were brave, and it might not work out. I'm so glad it did. Those were special years, and Terroir was a special place. Nothing better than sitting at the bar there on a late Friday afternoon and having Joe Dougherty unexpectedly walk in, just off the plane. He'd say he could only stay for a bit, and then leave four or five hours later.

I used to spend a lot of time in Napa with Abe Schoener during the early days of Terroir. I would stop at Terroir on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning and load the car up with wine and head to Napa. Abe would have huge parties at his house filled with local winemakers and we would taste all of the wines. Tegan was a regular at those parties. It was so bizarre that I would fly in from NYC to drink mostly natural French wines in Napa as well as Austrian and German! This was before Hardy and that wave hit Napa. Can't believe Terrior is closed. I saw Chris in LA a few weeks ago and it we reminded me of many of those early Terrior days.

I would also add Terroir does not get nearly as much credit. I was surprised that Aaron did not give them much coverage in his book and focused more on the Oakland scene.

I live in Oakland, a block from Ordinaire. Terroir was the start of the natural wine movement in the Bay Area. Definitely in terms of wine bars and retail. And had a huge influence on winemaking as well. Guilhaume, Luc, and Dagan are the OGs. Still remember the first time I walked in there. Drank Puffeney. Drank my first Overnoy there. Brought them their first Cornelissen, back when the Contadino still had stuff floating in it.

I'm not that surprised at the omission, I guess. I heard a wine hipster podcast last week refer to Jaugaret as "mid." Ignorance.

The old days at Terroir really were something. One of my favorite moments was being there at around 1:30 AM and José Pastor suddenly appears on the balcony and yells" Monkey!!!!" and runs down. He had been asleep on the couch up there the whole time. It was a home away from home for me for years when I made 3-4 trips to SF. Sadly, almost everyone I know from that era is gone from the area: Scott, Ian, La Ciccia, the Terroir guys, Hong Kong Lounge II, etc., etc. Not sure when I'll ever get back. Great memories.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

It's funny -- thinking back 12 or 13 years, you'd see all these folks at Terroir in SF. Chris Brockway. Hardy Wallace. Laura from Inconnu. Their projects were just getting started, or hadn't begun yet. I remember thinking that they were brave, and it might not work out. I'm so glad it did. Those were special years, and Terroir was a special place. Nothing better than sitting at the bar there on a late Friday afternoon and having Joe Dougherty unexpectedly walk in, just off the plane. He'd say he could only stay for a bit, and then leave four or five hours later.

I used to spend a lot of time in Napa with Abe Schoener during the early days of Terroir. I would stop at Terroir on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning and load the car up with wine and head to Napa. Abe would have huge parties at his house filled with local winemakers and we would taste all of the wines. Tegan was a regular at those parties. It was so bizarre that I would fly in from NYC to drink mostly natural French wines in Napa as well as Austrian and German! This was before Hardy and that wave hit Napa. Can't believe Terrior is closed. I saw Chris in LA a few weeks ago and it we reminded me of many of those early Terrior days.

I would also add Terroir does not get nearly as much credit. I was surprised that Aaron did not give them much coverage in his book and focused more on the Oakland scene.

I live in Oakland, a block from Ordinaire. Terroir was the start of the natural wine movement in the Bay Area. Definitely in terms of wine bars and retail. And had a huge influence on winemaking as well. Guilhaume, Luc, and Dagan are the OGs. Still remember the first time I walked in there. Drank Puffeney. Drank my first Overnoy there. Brought them their first Cornelissen, back when the Contadino still had stuff floating in it.

I'm not that surprised at the omission, I guess. I heard a wine hipster podcast last week refer to Jaugaret as "mid." Ignorance.

The old days at Terroir really were something. One of my favorite moments was being there at around 1:30 AM and José Pastor suddenly appears on the balcony and yells" Monkey!!!!" and runs down. He had been asleep on the couch up there the whole time. It was a home away from home for me for years when I made 3-4 trips to SF. Sadly, almost everyone I know from that era is gone from the area: Scott, Ian, La Ciccia, the Terroir guys, Hong Kong Lounge II, etc., etc. Not sure when I'll ever get back. Great memories.

Jose is still out here, I think, as is Wolfgang. There's a few holdouts. But you're right. Damn, I sound like an old man.

 

[Robert Dentice]

originally posted by VLM:

The old days at Terroir really were something. One of my favorite moments was being there at around 1:30 AM and José Pastor suddenly appears on the balcony and yells" Monkey!!!!" and runs down. He had been asleep on the couch up there the whole time. It was a home away from home for me for years when I made 3-4 trips to SF. Sadly, almost everyone I know from that era is gone from the area: Scott, Ian, La Ciccia, the Terroir guys, Hong Kong Lounge II, etc., etc. Not sure when I'll ever get back. Great memories.

So true. I had so many great nights / days there. The opening of Terroir coincided with me picking up coverage of the SF area for my job in 2008 and making a lot of friends in Napa. Still have many of those clients and all of those friends. SF is not even close to what it was in those days. I still go out often but only go to the State Bird family of restaurants.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Robert Dentice:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

It's funny -- thinking back 12 or 13 years, you'd see all these folks at Terroir in SF. Chris Brockway. Hardy Wallace. Laura from Inconnu. Their projects were just getting started, or hadn't begun yet. I remember thinking that they were brave, and it might not work out. I'm so glad it did. Those were special years, and Terroir was a special place. Nothing better than sitting at the bar there on a late Friday afternoon and having Joe Dougherty unexpectedly walk in, just off the plane. He'd say he could only stay for a bit, and then leave four or five hours later.

I used to spend a lot of time in Napa with Abe Schoener during the early days of Terroir. I would stop at Terroir on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning and load the car up with wine and head to Napa. Abe would have huge parties at his house filled with local winemakers and we would taste all of the wines. Tegan was a regular at those parties. It was so bizarre that I would fly in from NYC to drink mostly natural French wines in Napa as well as Austrian and German! This was before Hardy and that wave hit Napa. Can't believe Terrior is closed. I saw Chris in LA a few weeks ago and it we reminded me of many of those early Terrior days.

I would also add Terroir does not get nearly as much credit. I was surprised that Aaron did not give them much coverage in his book and focused more on the Oakland scene.

I live in Oakland, a block from Ordinaire. Terroir was the start of the natural wine movement in the Bay Area. Definitely in terms of wine bars and retail. And had a huge influence on winemaking as well. Guilhaume, Luc, and Dagan are the OGs. Still remember the first time I walked in there. Drank Puffeney. Drank my first Overnoy there. Brought them their first Cornelissen, back when the Contadino still had stuff floating in it.

I'm not that surprised at the omission, I guess. I heard a wine hipster podcast last week refer to Jaugaret as "mid." Ignorance.

The old days at Terroir really were something. Great memories.

No shit. Où sont les neiges d’antan?

 

[Florida Jim]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
Drank my first Overnoy there.

I have to ask - was it one night when a patron came in with his wife and got to talking wine with the bar folks and the Overnoy, Arbois came up and the patron went out to his car and brought one in and opened it for those in attendance?
If so, guess who that patron was?

 

[Marc D]

Do you guys remember a food truck outside Terroir? IIRC they did a great skate in brown butter sauce.

That Hofer vineyard Grenache is a pretty nice wine, the “vineyard” is unbelievable, check Google maps to see. I like the Tribute to Grace version of Hofer. Her rose is also delicious.

I’m still a big fan of Arnot Roberts. I love everything but a special shout out on their Zinfandel from Kirschenmann vineyard in Lodi. Full Zinberry goodness at or just under 13% alcohol, from Lodi.

I just got on to trying Birichino this last year. They are very good at capturing ripeness without the alcohol getting too high also. Fun Pet Nats from there too.

Jolie Laide is another winery I’ve been purchasing and drinking the last 3 years regularly. I love their whites especially but the are reds worth trying too.

 

[Robert Dentice]

In the not technically new California, but in the spirit of the question, I had a Santa Cruz Mountain Pinot for lunch today that was beautiful.

2012 Santa Cruz Mountain Branciforte Creek Vineyard, Vine Hill Reserve - Beautiful wine that is just turning the corner to tertiary flavors. Bright fruit with a savory component that is obviously still from California but yet restrained and elegant. With an hour or so of air this really blossoms and become more complex. Went wonderfully with a roast chicken. Available from the winery for $75. I bought a few other library wines, including a cab, to try.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by Marc D:
Do you guys remember a food truck outside Terroir? IIRC they did a great skate in brown butter sauce.

It was from Chez Spencer, which is now closed. Guilhaume, Luc, and Dagan all worked at Chez Spencer before they opened Terroir. That food truck was a lot of fun.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by Florida Jim:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
Drank my first Overnoy there.

I have to ask - was it one night when a patron came in with his wife and got to talking wine with the bar folks and the Overnoy, Arbois came up and the patron went out to his car and brought one in and opened it for those in attendance?
If so, guess who that patron was?

Jim, we've met, but I've never been fortunate enough to meet your wife, so I wasn't there for your bottle. Terroir had Overnoy in inventory. I'm pretty sure my first bottle was 2007 Poulsard. That wine is so beautiful, it can be emotional. Notes on the recently-released 2018 sound similar. Alas, I have one bottle of 2018, so deciding when to open it will be a challenge.

 

[Florida Jim]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Florida Jim:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
Drank my first Overnoy there.

I have to ask - was it one night when a patron came in with his wife and got to talking wine with the bar folks and the Overnoy, Arbois came up and the patron went out to his car and brought one in and opened it for those in attendance?
If so, guess who that patron was?

Jim, we've met, but I've never been fortunate enough to meet your wife, so I wasn't there for your bottle. Terroir had Overnoy in inventory. I'm pretty sure my first bottle was 2007 Poulsard. That wine is so beautiful, it can be emotional. Notes on the recently-released 2018 sound similar. Alas, I have one bottle of 2018, so deciding when to open it will be a challenge.

I thought you were talking about Ordinaire; sorry about that (not many grey cells left). We stopped in after dinner at Sea Wolf and got acquainted.
Didn’t we meet at Mike Dashe’s place?

BTW, when the 2006 or 7 (can’t remember which) Overnoy Poulsard was released, it was pretty much below the collector’s radar and I bought two cases from Chanbers Street. Drank every one of them; one in Ordinaire - they were all wonderful.
I just couldn’t save them . . .

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by Florida Jim:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Florida Jim:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
Drank my first Overnoy there.

I have to ask - was it one night when a patron came in with his wife and got to talking wine with the bar folks and the Overnoy, Arbois came up and the patron went out to his car and brought one in and opened it for those in attendance?
If so, guess who that patron was?

Jim, we've met, but I've never been fortunate enough to meet your wife, so I wasn't there for your bottle. Terroir had Overnoy in inventory. I'm pretty sure my first bottle was 2007 Poulsard. That wine is so beautiful, it can be emotional. Notes on the recently-released 2018 sound similar. Alas, I have one bottle of 2018, so deciding when to open it will be a challenge.

I thought you were talking about Ordinaire; sorry about that (not many grey cells left). We stopped in after dinner at Sea Wolf and got acquainted.
Didn’t we meet at Mike Dashe’s place?

BTW, when the 2006 or 7 (can’t remember which) Overnoy Poulsard was released, it was pretty much below the collector’s radar and I bought two cases from Chanbers Street. Drank every one of them; one in Ordinaire - they were all wonderful.
I just couldn’t save them . . .

Yes, we met at the Dashe tasting and lunch. Come back out, we can do it again!

I still have two bottles of 2007 Poulsard. Among the treasures of my cellar. Although I'm trying not to make them too precious.

 

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by Robert Dentice: In I had a Santa Cruz Mountain Pinot for lunch today that was beautiful. I bought a few other library wines, including a cab, to try.

Robert, I've likewise bought library wines on several occasions (in addition to my current releases purchases). You will forever be glad you did.

. . . . . Pete

 

[Robert Dentice]

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Robert Dentice: In I had a Santa Cruz Mountain Pinot for lunch today that was beautiful. I bought a few other library wines, including a cab, to try.

Robert, I've likewise bought library wines on several occasions (in addition to my current releases purchases). You will forever be glad you did.

. . . . . Pete

I had a 77 Pinot at Berns a couple of months ago, served blind, that was stunning.

How are the Cabs?

 

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by Robert Dentice: I had a 77 Pinot at Berns a couple of months ago, served blind, that was stunning.

How are the Cabs?

Robert, that doesn't surprise me about the '77. I have treasured some of my older SCMV Pinots, particularly the '88 and '89 Pinots (especially the '88) and still have some. I tried to buy some more of the '88 not long ago but Jeff laughed and said that that was Ken's favorite also; in fact, he said that Ken fairly recently used up the whole library stash of the '88 for his wedding.

I'm not well versed personally with the Cabs. They get very good reviews and the few I recall having have been quite nice.

. . . . . . Pete

 

[MLipton]

Wow! Thanks to all of you for the valuable input. I’ve got a lot of new names to look into. Thanks also for the nostalgia about Terroir.

Mark Lipton

 

[Keith Levenberg]

Extradimensional. Hard to pack more joy in a bottle.