Mid Loire visit recommendations esp Saumur/Chinon

B

BJ

BJ
Hey all,

Headed to England and France in a month - will be in Bourgeuil for a week. Already setting up visits etc., but would love recommendations- traditional style, not naturelle. Probably won't visit Matthieu (long visit last time). Roches Neuves, Olga Raffault, and Ogereau on deck, what else? Have tried tons of different things in prep, many options, but wanted to consult the Oracle.
 
You know most of the Dressnerian suspects. Other names... well, I like the red Sancerre from Vincent Gaudry. I like the red Saumur from Filliatreau. Dom. Belliviere (Eric Nicolas), perhaps?

I think Jay told me some Clos Roches Blanche vines are in new hands recently.
 
I've been finding too much VA in Bellivière, so have grown wary.

With Roches Neuves I have always had some difficulty (which Joe D shared), so would look forward to your take.

To throw in a few others: Sébastien David, Jerôme Lenoir, Chateau de Coulaine, M Plouzeau (who make a fine Touraine Clos Maulevrier Franc de Pied) and, more naturelle and a little further, but hipper, Jean-Christophe Garnier.
 
Oswaldo, curious what your reservations are about Roches Neuves?

I have a mixed case of their reds coming this week prior to the trip so will report back.

We tried a mix of midLoire reds from Chambers, and the honest truth is none of them really grabbed me.

We did have an late release 05 O Raffault Picasses lately that was just superb.

I have been disappointed to find some latent VA/brett in the Ogereau Tailles emerging with a little time.
 
I dunno...I guess a bit rash. I meant from Anjou to Vouvray. But really, we're focused on Saumur, S-C, and Chinon, with one foray to the Layon. Just too easy to chase your tail and not relax. I wanna do some birding along the river, Mme L some horse riding, and the LeMans Classic is on while we're there.

We had a lovely bottle of Domaine des Forges Savennieres last night.
 
originally posted by BJ:
Oswaldo, curious what your reservations are about Roches Neuves?

I have a mixed case of their reds coming this week prior to the trip so will report back.

We tried a mix of midLoire reds from Chambers, and the honest truth is none of them really grabbed me.

We did have an late release 05 O Raffault Picasses lately that was just superb.

I have been disappointed to find some latent VA/brett in the Ogereau Tailles emerging with a little time.
Click to expand...

Hard to put into words, there was something generically correct but unexciting, almost glossy, about the few Roches Neuves I've tried (mostly whites), the last of which was a 2015 Saumur Clos Romans in 2020. Kirk likes them quite a bit, though.
 
the roches neuves reds that i have had have shown very true and pure fruit, but really just fruit--no pencil shavings, rose petals, and other non-fruit complexities--the things i like best about loire cabernet franc. they have left me wishing for bernard baudry, jacky blot, catherine and pierre breton, et. al.

that being said, the l'insolite saumur blanc 2021 from roches neuves is one of the most rockingest chenin acid trips i've ever experienced. you may see visions.
 
will you be staying at cafe de la promenade in bourgueil?

the harley riding metal heads have sold it, and it sounds like it is now in saner and more convivial hands.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by BJ:
Oswaldo, curious what your reservations are about Roches Neuves?

I have a mixed case of their reds coming this week prior to the trip so will report back.

We tried a mix of midLoire reds from Chambers, and the honest truth is none of them really grabbed me.

We did have an late release 05 O Raffault Picasses lately that was just superb.

I have been disappointed to find some latent VA/brett in the Ogereau Tailles emerging with a little time.
Click to expand...

Hard to put into words, there was something generically correct but unexciting, almost glossy, about the few Roches Neuves I've tried (mostly whites), the last of which was a 2015 Saumur Clos Romans in 2020. Kirk likes them quite a bit, though.
Click to expand...

News to me!
I met Thierry Germain (and the Vacheron cousins — they were there celebrating some award Thierry had just received) years ago sitting at the counter at a Paris restaurant, but I’d be surprised if I’ve tried his wines more than 5 or 6 times. I have pleasant, generic memories of them, and I agree with O that a touch of “gloss” (over, say, soul) comes through in those memories. (Not as glossy as Vacheron, for what it’s worth.) At that same resto, a few years later, a young bottle of La Marginale was a very good lunch companion to a magnificent roast chicken (truffles & butter under the skin), as a I recall — going back 15 years I suppose — but the chicken stands out in this memory, not the wine.
 
Cool - well, I just ordered a Roches Neuves mixed case, so I'll report back.

We are staying at a sweet looking ancient manor housey thing - suite of rooms -

We may need to check out the cafe de la promenade. We did try it out during the metal head era, and ran screaming.
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by BJ:
Oswaldo, curious what your reservations are about Roches Neuves?

I have a mixed case of their reds coming this week prior to the trip so will report back.

We tried a mix of midLoire reds from Chambers, and the honest truth is none of them really grabbed me.

We did have an late release 05 O Raffault Picasses lately that was just superb.

I have been disappointed to find some latent VA/brett in the Ogereau Tailles emerging with a little time.
Click to expand...

Hard to put into words, there was something generically correct but unexciting, almost glossy, about the few Roches Neuves I've tried (mostly whites), the last of which was a 2015 Saumur Clos Romans in 2020. Kirk likes them quite a bit, though.
Click to expand...

News to me!
I met Thierry Germain (and the Vacheron cousins — they were there celebrating some award Thierry had just received) years ago sitting at the counter at a Paris restaurant, but I’d be surprised if I’ve tried his wines more than 5 or 6 times. I have pleasant, generic memories of them, and I agree with O that a touch of “gloss” (over, say, soul) comes through in those memories. (Not as glossy as Vacheron, for what it’s worth.) At that same resto, a few years later, a young bottle of La Marginale was a very good lunch companion to a magnificent roast chicken (truffles & butter under the skin), as a I recall — going back 15 years I suppose — but the chicken stands out in this memory, not the wine.
Click to expand...

I don't have the world's greatest memory, but I do recall an enthusiastic Instagram post of yours (from some years ago) about Clos Romans, too bad Instagram ain't searchable (or is it?).
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

I think Jay told me some Clos Roches Blanche vines are in new hands recently.
Click to expand...

Julien Pineau is one of the new owners of CRB and, as it happens, he is hosting a mini-salon on June 24-25 with a dozen or so vignerons all tasting "dans les vignes du Clos Roche Blanche." The group trends much nattier than a lot of the names in this thread, but for three euros you could do worse than just enjoy the party.
 
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