Mid Loire visit recommendations esp Saumur/Chinon

originally posted by fillay:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I think Jay told me some Clos Roches Blanche vines are in new hands recently.
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Julien Pineau is one of the new owners of CRB and, as it happens, he is hosting a mini-salon on June 24-25 with a dozen or so vignerons all tasting "dans les vignes du Clos Roche Blanche." The group trends much nattier than a lot of the names in this thread, but for three euros you could do worse than just enjoy the party.
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Muscadeath? I thought someone said the bikers moved on.
 
A friend (American) competed in the Lemans classic last year and reported it to be an incredible experience.
 
Whoa, that CRB thing looks fun. It's an hour and a half each way...hmmm...and the Mme is going horse riding that morning...
 
The '19 Phillippe Alliet otoh, very serious, I was impressed. Poster child for "serious, cellar-worthy" tag. Dirt and fruit and autumny suggestions...

Why do I have deja vu writing this?
 
It's good to have more than one experience of a wine so you can control for provenance and other bottle-specific conditions. And you actually had two different vintages so also good.

I went to a shop to buy two bottles of Brun L'Ancien today. There were three bottles on the shelf. Good thing I looked: two of the '21 and one of the '20. I was tempted to diversify the portfolio but I took the two same.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

I don't have the world's greatest memory, but I do recall an enthusiastic Instagram post of yours (from some years ago) about Clos Romans, too bad Instagram ain't searchable (or is it?).
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Manual search proves you correct!
May 13, 2020. From the early depths of the pandemic:
“Not everyday need be Riesling or rosé day. Chenin comes to the rescue. It is staggeringly delicous. Minerality, salinity and with fruit just ripe enough. Impressive in ‘15.”

I must have picked it up at one of our local haunts as a gesture of pandemic support,, as i own none.
So that one did indeed do the trick.
 
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by kirk wallace:
[shhhhh]
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Your absence was noted during my visit to Ratana' 10 days ago...
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Ah, alas. We need to get back north soon. Been spending all our Italy time in Rome, Naples and Sicily, for the most part.
Glad to hear Ratana survives. Hope you are thriving.
-K
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

I don't have the world's greatest memory, but I do recall an enthusiastic Instagram post of yours (from some years ago) about Clos Romans, too bad Instagram ain't searchable (or is it?).
Click to expand...

Manual search proves you correct!
May 13, 2020. From the early depths of the pandemic:
“Not everyday need be Riesling or rosé day. Chenin comes to the rescue. It is staggeringly delicous. Minerality, salinity and with fruit just ripe enough. Impressive in ‘15.”

I must have picked it up at one of our local haunts as a gesture of pandemic support,, as i own none.
So that one did indeed do the trick.
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Gtk it was (possibly) an isolated experience. Now the ball is in BJ's court.
 
I don't go in for that.

Having fun doing wine prep for trip. Learning and enjoying!

Having a couple of open bottles of domaine wines: '21 Roches Neuves and '20 Closiers. Back and forth, excellent bottles. Roches Neuves a bit more leafy, Closiers showing better day two, but both pretty wonderful examples of SC. Night one, preferred RN, night two, Closiers.

'18 Collier blanc...oak integrating with air, all that fine wine stuff, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Mme L called and made appointments this morning, Ogereau, O Raffault, Y Amirault, fun Fun FUN!.!!!
 
originally posted by BJ:

Having a couple of open bottles of domaine wines: '21 Roches Neuves and '20 Closiers.
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basic '20 Closiers ? I suspect that's a lot more enjoyable than '20 Coudraies that engaged with me in a mutually agreed-upon torture last night.
 
Yeah, the Closiers cuvee. Glad you told me, I have the Coudraies too, and almost opened it tonight. Instead, drinking the RN Terres Chaudes, which is quite excellent.

Settling out between the two domaine wines...I think the Closiers was better...quite excellent.
 
originally posted by BJ:

'18 Collier blanc...oak integrating with air, all that fine wine stuff, we'll see what tomorrow brings.
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Had the 2009 Saturday night and it was absolutely stunning. The Collier white wines might be my favorite white wines on the planet. I find the oak, like in great Burgundy, is irrelevant with some age. They're not cheap, but for me, relative to their quality and the market, they might be the best value whites in the world.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by BJ:

'18 Collier blanc...oak integrating with air, all that fine wine stuff, we'll see what tomorrow brings.
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Had the 2009 Saturday night and it was absolutely stunning. The Collier white wines might be my favorite white wines on the planet. I find the oak, like in great Burgundy, is irrelevant with some age. They're not cheap, but for me, relative to their quality and the market, they might be the best value whites in the world.
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Wow.

Another wine I feel that way about is the Chapoutier St. J Granits blanc. - similar in their way.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

With Roches Neuves I have always had some difficulty (which Joe D shared), so would look forward to your take.
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Is that a reference to SFJoe or Dressner?

I have been working my way through a bottle of 2021 "Roches" for the past 3 days, and I am puzzled at best. That's another way of saying that at the end of the day I am more than likely to agree with Oswaldo and others who have expressed reservations.

While I realize that "Roches" is from purchased fruit, it is undoubtedly vinified the same way as his Domaine bottling, as confirmed by multiple sources.

Comments regarding the wines being glossy and fruit-dominant resonate with me. Anecdotally, I can't come to terms with the whole blueberry yogurt thing with Cab Franc. The fruit here is exceptionally blue, which in itself is not a criticism and may be a matter of personal taste. The milky thing is completely beyond me (fermented in stainless steel for crying out loud), and may arise from associations given how creamy the wine is despite its being admittedly pure and precise. Regarding absence of floral and spicy complexity that is essential to the grape - yes and no. I think it's here but I find it superficial and unable to integrate with the wine intricately as the best of S-C will do. The reason for that appears to be the wine's impenetrable richness. Have to be careful here - its alcohol is well in check and it isn't rich in any modern sense. If I didn't know better based on all we know about the vinification (and have no reason to doubt given the address), I'd inquire about extraction enzymes that haunted us in Cote de Nuits in very late 1990s and early 00s. That would be silly given an effort NOT to extract by the winemaker, but one has to trust one's palate with the understanding that sometimes cause and effect remains a mystery.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

With Roches Neuves I have always had some difficulty (which Joe D shared), so would look forward to your take.
Click to expand...

Is that a reference to SFJoe or Dressner?

I have been working my way through a bottle of 2021 "Roches" for the past 3 days, and I am puzzled at best. That's another way of saying that at the end of the day I am more than likely to agree with Oswaldo and others who have expressed reservations.

While I realize that "Roches" is from purchased fruit, it is undoubtedly vinified the same way as his Domaine bottling, as confirmed by multiple sources.

Comments regarding the wines being glossy and fruit-dominant resonate with me. Anecdotally, I can't come to terms with the whole blueberry yogurt thing with Cab Franc. The fruit here is exceptionally blue, which in itself is not a criticism and may be a matter of personal taste. The milky thing is completely beyond me (fermented in stainless steel for crying out loud), and may arise from associations given how creamy the wine is despite its being admittedly pure and precise. Regarding absence of floral and spicy complexity that is essential to the grape - yes and no. I think it's here but I find it superficial and unable to integrate with the wine intricately as the best of S-C will do. The reason for that appears to be the wine's impenetrable richness. Have to be careful here - its alcohol is well in check and it isn't rich in any modern sense. If I didn't know better based on all we know about the vinification (and have no reason to doubt given the address), I'd inquire about extraction enzymes that haunted us in Cote de Nuits in very late 1990s and early 00s. That would be silly given an effort NOT to extract by the winemaker, but one has to trust one's palate with the understanding that sometimes cause and effect remains a mystery.
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Meant Dougherty. Once we were having lunch at a restaurant in Chelsea and there was a Roches Neuves cab franc being served btg. I ordered a glass and told Joe I wasn't liking it much, to which he responded that he wasn't a fan. Blueberry yogurt and milky thing resonate with that long-ago experience.
 
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