Engel

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:


One of the most knowledgeable (acknowledged both domestically and internationally) wine guys recently enjoyed the Engel Clos de Vougeot '03 and declared it to be one of the best Clos de Vougeots he could recall having. Pretty strong praise.

. . . . . Pete
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This is becoming a tic.
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nonsense, i rely on Loesberg for chateauneuf-du-pape and continue to quote shamelessly
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:


One of the most knowledgeable (acknowledged both domestically and internationally) wine guys recently enjoyed the Engel Clos de Vougeot '03 and declared it to be one of the best Clos de Vougeots he could recall having. Pretty strong praise.

. . . . . Pete
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This is becoming a tic.
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nonsense, i rely on Loesberg for chateauneuf-du-pape and continue to quote shamelessly
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Maybe it's just background tic, as in L'heure espagnol.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:


One of the most knowledgeable (acknowledged both domestically and internationally) wine guys recently enjoyed the Engel Clos de Vougeot '03 and declared it to be one of the best Clos de Vougeots he could recall having. Pretty strong praise.

. . . . . Pete
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This is becoming a tic.
Click to expand...

nonsense, i rely on Loesberg for chateauneuf-du-pape and continue to quote shamelessly
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Heartwarming, but not to the point. It is one thing to follow my advice, say, on what to buy and when to drink some CdP or another. Charming, as I say, though inadvisable. It's another in arguing with someone else over whether a CdP is good or not--as pointless and argument as whether vanilla ice cream tastes better than chocolate--and saying to some one who asserts that Cdp cuvèe speciale la mère de ma grandmère enfermè dans ma cave is a spoofilated mess that Loesberg, the CdP expert (ha!) agrees with you that it is delicious. The first statement only means that you like bad advice. The second is an ignoratio elenchi
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Cdp cuvèe speciale la mère de ma grandmère enfermè dans ma cave
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Where might I avail myself of this elixir? Wine-searchcer comes up empty.
ignoratio elenchi
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My favorite wine critic! Love his 42-point rating system.

Mark “Fanboi” Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Cdp cuvèe speciale la mère de ma grandmère enfermè dans ma cave
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Where might I avail myself of this elixir? Wine-searchcer comes up empty.

Mark “Fanboi” Lipton
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It can only be bought at the domaine and only by clients who have been buying wine from there for at least 10 years. And the domaine only receives by their invitation at an unmarked house outside of CdP. This is how you know Cambie never consulted there. He didn't know where it was.
 
I am the very model of a Super Macedonian,
My grapes are grown on soils that date from late in the Devonian,
My rhizomes keep the soil supplied with nitrogen-based nutrients,

Nutrients?
Nutrients?
Ah, I have it.

And ignore that Lipton fellow 'cause he's just full of insouciance!
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I am the very model of a Super Macedonian,
My grapes are grown on soils that date from late in the Devonian,
My rhizomes keep the soil supplied with nitrogen-based nutrients,

Nutrients?
Nutrients?
Ah, I have it.

And ignore that Lipton fellow 'cause he's just full of insouciance!
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Actually full of Pierre-Bise non-dosé Cremant de Loire, but close,

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I am the very model of a Super Macedonian,
My grapes are grown on soils that date from late in the Devonian,
My rhizomes keep the soil supplied with nitrogen-based nutrients,

Nutrients?
Nutrients?
Ah, I have it.

And ignore that Lipton fellow 'cause he's just full of insouciance!
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In the matter of wine musts and grape stems, it must be sad that the Cambie effect Cambie said to stem from a Cambie nation of factors (thus we go where the lingo takes us, even if the lingoberry jam makes us stray from the matter at handsome).
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Georg, fair point. Obviously, the dessert does not enter into the thought process of selecting which wine to have with the dinner. When eating at home, by the end of the main course, I usually have only a little bit of wine left. Thus, I shouldn't include the comment about the dessert.

I'll try to remember to not do it anymore.

. . . . . . Pete
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Oh, don’t ignore the cookie. These geeks will complain no matter what you do. I have never assumed you were posting a note on the wine with dessert.
 
originally posted by maureen:
Oh, don’t ignore the cookie. These geeks will complain no matter what you do. I have never assumed you were posting a note on the wine with dessert.
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Maureen speaks truth to power.

I am eating a rather large and sugary gingerbread cookie with a bottle of Coudert 2023 "Tardive" and it's matching beautifully: they're all warm years now so there's plenty of sweet fruit to match the sweet dough (with additional sugar crystals on the outside) and the ginger-allspice flavors pick up the peppercorn / tea / earthy notes in the wine.
 
Not sure how much power there is here, unless you are releasing politburo secrets..

And interesting that the new era of sweet reds can move seamlessly to dessert. 23 was pretty high-octane, but let's hope they're not all like that.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by maureen:
Oh, don’t ignore the cookie. These geeks will complain no matter what you do. I have never assumed you were posting a note on the wine with dessert.
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Maureen speaks truth to power.

I am eating a rather large and sugary gingerbread cookie with a bottle of Coudert 2023 "Tardive" and it's matching beautifully: they're all warm years now so there's plenty of sweet fruit to match the sweet dough (with additional sugar crystals on the outside) and the ginger-allspice flavors pick up the peppercorn / tea / earthy notes in the wine.
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Fascinating. I feel slightly nauseated just from reading this. It is not just that I do not enjoy parings of red wine and sweets, it upsets my stomach. That is why I never drink more wine after dessert.
 
If people switch from sugar to sugar alcohol (e.g., erythritol, xylitol, & many others), they will find that dry reds remain unaffected by the sweetness of the dessert. You have to tinker a bit until you find the right combination for your palate, but it's way less caloric. Just sayin'
 
Fascinating. I feel slightly nauseated just from reading this. It is not just that I do not enjoy pairings of red wine and sweets, it upsets my stomach. That is why I never drink more wine after dessert.
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Agreed-after dessert one wheels in the digestif trolley.
 
Simone Beck, one of Julia Child's collaborators on Mastering the Art of French Cooking, loved to serve Chateau Margaux with chocolate cake. (I believe that she was related to the then-owners of Ch. Margaux, and so probably got hers for free; at any rate, it was a helluva lot cheaper back then even at retail).

Somewhat in the same vein, about 35 years ago, I had lunch at Chateau Montrose. For dessert, we had Montrose 1975 plus wild strawberries with 1970 Montrose poured over. Even better than your wildest imagination!
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Simone Beck, one of Julia Child's collaborators on Mastering the Art of French Cooking, loved to serve Chateau Margaux with chocolate cake.
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I would have no problem with this should the wine come from the Pontallier era (provided the cookie was sufficiently inexpensive and replaceable), but I suspect Beck's experience you describe dates back a little earlier.

Somewhat in the same vein, about 35 years ago, I had lunch at Chateau Montrose. For dessert, we had Montrose 1975 plus wild strawberries with 1970 Montrose poured over. Even better than your wildest imagination!
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I just had 75 Montrose, two weeks ago! Whoever is sitting on one, your patience is being rewarded.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Not sure how much power there is here, unless you are releasing politburo secrets..
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Polly who? You mean the people who used to live in the old abandoned house on the hill?

And interesting that the new era of sweet reds can move seamlessly to dessert. 23 was pretty high-octane, but let's hope they're not all like that.
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It is a little curious to me. If Nature gives you too much sugar and you don't want to make 15% gamay then it seems pretty logical that some gets left behind.

It may also be that, like Pontallier's chocolate cake, the torrefaction flavors of the barrel are what is matching with the baked goods.

And cherry chocolate cake is well-known.
 
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