The Burgundies I Drink

[Oswaldo Costa]

This thread reminded me that, after a robustly laudatory post from fellow disorderly John McIlwain, I bought me three bottles of the 2016 Voillot Volnay VV (aka VVVV). Have had a soft spot for this domain after a memorable visit in 2008, despite mixed experiences with the wines, always attributable to bad timing. First half drunk three days ago, second half tonight. It was a bit puzzling, exactly half-way between lovely & layered and stacked & difficult. Perhaps a wee bit of the intracelular associated with zee whole cluster would have been the charm. John's post was, if I recall, more than a year ago, so methinks I missed the prime window too.

 

[Jayson Cohen]

Yeah. This is probably a bad time to drink 2016, the last really structured red Burg vintage. I’ve started to hear even the slightly easier 2017s are shutting down.

 

[Rahsaan]

Agreed. Although I had a very friendly 2016 S Magnien Faconnières earlier this summer, I think that is more of an exception. Am generally very hesitant, including with the Voillot 2016 that I have.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I lack confidence about opening anything Burgundy from 2005. Are the 05s loosening up at all?

I have started opening them semi-regularly. They are in a nice spot, no longer closed, but still far from mature. You can do pretty well just following your gut. The wines you would expect to be ready sooner are all there, the wines you'd expect to take a long time to come around are best left alone.

I will add that the predictability Keith is describing (correctly IMO/IME) does not apply to most other vintages whose maturity status is under question for red Burgundy.

 

[Zachary Ross]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Lyle's best Burgundy producer is Brisset - all of you should get some. The Boussey and Buffet Volnays/Pommards have been good, esp. for the pricing, but nothing to make you forget about any old favorites or established names.

This (re: Brisset). Both reds and whites. And Lyle's pricing is sharper than what one finds in retail shops.

 

[Rahsaan]

I will have to trust you guys and maybe check out Brisset one day. $100 for village level negociant wine didn't have me leaping to charge my credit card. But there are no rules for this stuff.

 

[Zachary Ross]

originally posted by Rahsaan:
I will have to trust you guys and maybe check out Brisset one day. $100 for village level negociant wine didn't have me leaping to charge my credit card. But there are no rules for this stuff.

So true. FWIW, Lyle offered Brisset's NSG 1er Aux Thorey for $84 - not cheap, but not what the retail market reflects, either. The Bourgogne rouge is about $40.

 

[Rahsaan]

Was that a while ago? Last week he offered 2021 Brisset Pommard 1er for $93. Ok, it's not village-level hierarchy and I'm sure it's delicious. But competition is steep at that price (even in Burgundy) and I don't need to buy lots of wine at the moment. So I thought about it but stayed away.

 

[Zachary Ross]

The Thorey was offered in March 2023, the Bourgogne in July.

 

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Yeah. This is probably a bad time to drink 2016, the last really structured red Burg vintage. I’ve started to hear even the slightly easier 2017s are shutting down.

Drouhin Beaune Greves is still showing well

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Zachary Ross:

originally posted by Rahsaan:
I will have to trust you guys and maybe check out Brisset one day. $100 for village level negociant wine didn't have me leaping to charge my credit card. But there are no rules for this stuff.

So true. FWIW, Lyle offered Brisset's NSG 1er Aux Thorey for $84 - not cheap, but not what the retail market reflects, either. The Bourgogne rouge is about $40.

And those prices are 40% below retail? (Lyle's homepage promise, not my comment). Curious if you also need to pay tax and shipping charges or those are included in the bottle prices everyone is quoting?

The problem is that because of the level of hyperbole employed in the wine notes, none of them are actually believable.

 

[Zachary Ross]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Zachary Ross:

originally posted by Rahsaan:
I will have to trust you guys and maybe check out Brisset one day. $100 for village level negociant wine didn't have me leaping to charge my credit card. But there are no rules for this stuff.

So true. FWIW, Lyle offered Brisset's NSG 1er Aux Thorey for $84 - not cheap, but not what the retail market reflects, either. The Bourgogne rouge is about $40.

And those prices are 40% below retail? (Lyle's homepage promise, not my comment). Curious if you also need to pay tax and shipping charges or those are included in the bottle prices everyone is quoting?

The problem is that because of the level of hyperbole employed in the wine notes, none of them are actually believable.

One must pay tax and shipping.

 

[Rahsaan]

Tax and shipping are extra.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Rahsaan:
Tax and shipping are extra.

So if you ordered two bottles of 2021 Brisset Pommard 1er @ $93 it might actually be $120 per bottle.

We have such a different system in Norway - with many faults - but I can order thousands of wines to be internally shipped to my local store and pick them up without shipping charges. Of course, compared to a large US metro market, I have far fewer choices.

 

[Zachary Ross]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Rahsaan:
Tax and shipping are extra.

So if you ordered two bottles of 2021 Brisset Pommard 1er @ $93 it might actually be $120 per bottle.

We have such a different system in Norway - with many faults - but I can order thousands of wines to be internally shipped to my local store and pick them up without shipping charges. Of course, compared to a large US metro market, I have far fewer choices.

Most people consolidate orders and have full cases shipped, each at about $40, so that's about $3.50 additional per bottle for shipping. And of course one must always pay sales tax.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by Rahsaan:
2012 Louis Boillot Gevrey Chambertin was a mystery. I bought a lot of Boillot wines from the mid-late aughts vintages through the mid-late teens and am waiting to see how they age! Starts off tarts and acid and remains that way more or less for the first day. But this was one of the rare red Burgundies that tasted better to me on the second day. The fruit came out a bit more and it is still a fairly one-note village wine, but a nice Boillot crystal jeweled note, reminiscent of the wines when young, although a bit more mellowed. And enough of a good showing to keep my optimism alive about future development!

thought you'd be interested in my checking up on 2014 Louis Boillot Volnay Les Grands Poisots last night. Lovely wine as well, with tons of meaty earth on the nose and in the early stages of on-palate development. The meatiness is more Gevrey-esque than Aloxe; perhaps a friendly yeast stopped by from another barrel? :-)
Not sure this was an ideal time to open for my taste though. Plenty of complexity and good balance, but while the fruit is starting to lean secondary with an appropriate degree of sweetness, the structure in the backend is that of a relatively younger wine, particularly on account of acidity. Would prefer to give it a little time for this discrepancy to resolve.
Served with lamb chops on coal, which may be somewhat responsible for my impressions. A little too structured and slightly misaligned texture-wise for that particular beast.

 

[Rahsaan]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

thought you'd be interested in my checking up on 2014 Louis Boillot Volnay Les Grands Poisots last night. Lovely wine as well, with tons of meaty earth on the nose and in the early stages of on-palate development. The meatiness is more Gevrey-esque than Aloxe; perhaps a friendly yeast stopped by from another barrel? :-)

Not sure this was an ideal time to open for my taste though. Plenty of complexity and good balance, but while the fruit is starting to lean secondary with an appropriate degree of sweetness, the structure in the backend is that of a relatively younger wine, particularly on account of acidity. Would prefer to give it a little time for this discrepancy to resolve.

That all makes sense. I have been trying to find excuses to open 2014 wines, as a potentially approachable vintage. For Boillot, I have Evocelles and Brouillards, so will probably wait longer, especially after your note.

Last night I had 2010 Pavelot Narbantons. Evolved and resolved just like the 2010 Dominode, but not as good!

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

thought you'd be interested in my checking up on 2014 Louis Boillot Volnay Les Grands Poisots last night. Lovely wine as well, with tons of meaty earth on the nose and in the early stages of on-palate development. The meatiness is more Gevrey-esque than Aloxe; perhaps a friendly yeast stopped by from another barrel? :-)

Not sure this was an ideal time to open for my taste though. Plenty of complexity and good balance, but while the fruit is starting to lean secondary with an appropriate degree of sweetness, the structure in the backend is that of a relatively younger wine, particularly on account of acidity. Would prefer to give it a little time for this discrepancy to resolve.

That all makes sense. I have been trying to find excuses to open 2014 wines, as a potentially approachable vintage. For Boillot, I have Evocelles and Brouillards, so will probably wait longer, especially after your note.

Last night I had 2010 Pavelot Narbantons. Evolved and resolved just like the 2010 Dominode, but not as good!

That’s too bad. I have a couple bottles of the Narbantons (and no ‘10 Dominode)

Mark Lipton

 

[Rahsaan]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

Last night I had 2010 Pavelot Narbantons. Evolved and resolved just like the 2010 Dominode, but not as good!

That’s too bad. I have a couple bottles of the Narbantons (and no ‘10 Dominode)

Mark Lipton

Well, comparison can be tricky for pleasure. If you just have the Narbantons, you might find it worth your time. (And there are always other wines that one could chase/envy)

Along these lines, had the 2009 Pavelot Narbantons tonight and it was more delicious than the 2010, for my tastes. Richer, more layered, and more pinot noir berry character. Definitely marked by the riper year, but also showing the woodsy Savigny/CdBeaune elements. A nice wine with dinner. Although for the same price, I would easily take 09 and 10 Dominode over these wines.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

Last night I had 2010 Pavelot Narbantons. Evolved and resolved just like the 2010 Dominode, but not as good!

That’s too bad. I have a couple bottles of the Narbantons (and no ‘10 Dominode)

Mark Lipton

Well, comparison can be tricky for pleasure. If you just have the Narbantons, you might find it worth your time. (And there are always other wines that one could chase/envy)

Along these lines, had the 2009 Pavelot Narbantons tonight and it was more delicious than the 2010, for my tastes. Richer, more layered, and more pinot noir berry character. Definitely marked by the riper year, but also showing the woodsy Savigny/CdBeaune elements. A nice wine with dinner. Although for the same price, I would easily take 09 and 10 Dominode over these wines.

Well, spurred by this discussion, I opened the ‘10 Narbantons with dinner (roast duck, shiitakes sautéed with shallots and a sweet potato mash) tonight and it was singing. Totally resolved tannins, yet great palate presence. Dark cherry, sous bois and earth were the dominant flavors/aromas. I can only imagine how much more complex the Dominode must be.

Mark Lipton