Loire Dinner TNs -- 10/7/23

Yule Kim

Yule Kim
Some thoughts about some wines I had with friends this weekend at a neighborhood bistro located in SoMa:

White:
'08 Huet Le Mont Moelleux Première Trie
'96 Huet Clos de Bourg Première Trie
'96 Huet Clos de Bourg Sec
'90 Domaine des Baumard Savennières Trie Spéciale
'17 "La Roue qui Tourne” Blanc, Marie Thibault (sparkler)
'09 Clos Rougeard Breze
'18 Bernaudeau Les Ongles
'14 Robert Mondavi Winery Fumé Blanc To-Kalon I Block

Red
'09 Clos Rougeard Bourg
'09 Baudry Croix Boissee
'02 Breton Bourgueil Perrières
'89 Raffault Picasses
'17 Domaine du Bel Air Bourgueil Clos Nouveau
'19 Domaine des Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Franc de Pied

The '89 Raffault Picasses and the '09 Clos Rougeard Bourg were my co-reds of the nights. It was an interesting contrast. The '89 Raffault had fully resolved tannins, great length and concentration, and elegance. Textbook, archetypal Chinon is a good way to describe it. And I have such fond memories of the '85 Raffault Picasses one of the wines that turned me onto Loire Cab Francs. A trip down memory lane.

In contrast, the Clos Rougeard had an incredibly silky texture and elegance paired with power and density (and an lifted jolt of refreshing energy on the finish). Arguably the Clos Rougeard was more complex, but the Raffault was in such a pretty place on its aging curve.

'09 Baudry Croix Boissee was also a standout mainly because I brought it (jk). I don’t want to say rustic, but “feral” is perhaps a good way to describe the texture and rough edges that made the wine so compelling to me. It definitely kept up with the Clos Rougeard and I do think it will probably just get better with age. Nothing modern about this wine at all. And the '02 Breton was a real treat light, delicate, but the spiky acidity made it really appealing, especially as a food wine drunk with good bistro fare.

It was very interesting to contrast these wines with the Germain and the Gauthier wines. Germain, I felt, had more polish than the Rougeard, maybe even “slickness” is a better way to describe it -- yet, there was a mineral depth and complexity to the wine as well...perhaps related to the own-rooted vines. On the other hand, the Clos Nouveau was just so big and tannic -- should be interesting in 10+ years if not longer, but hard to get a fair read of it today. Some people thought the plushy texture and generous fruit felt "modern," but maybe it had more to do with the vintage. I don't have too much experience with this producer, but I plan to pay closer attention.

My favorite dry whites were the '18 Bernaudeau Les Ongles (what a kaleidoscope of citrus, minerals, and salinity on the palate) and the '96 Huet Le Mont Sec spry, energetic, and drinking surprisingly young. Deep regrets about missing the boat on Bernaudeau -- sounds like it has become unobtainium now.

Tbh, the Baumard was a little too big and the cheesy funk was a little too much for me. Great wine, but not really my cuppa. I also thought the Clos Rougeard Breze had an off-putting oxidized note on my first pour, but it did clear up with some more air. However, something still seemed off with it.

'96 Huet CdB Premiere Trie was firing on all cylinders and was in a really lovely place. The '08 Huet Le Mont Premiere Trie seemed a little off I’m assuming VA, but hard to tell. Folks at the table had a bunch of theories.

(And the sparkler was a great, refreshing aperitif while the Mondavi was surprisingly interesting despite being very rich and very Sauvignon Blanc).
 
Thanks for these notes. I am sitting on a long vertical of Croix Boissee so always glad when someone does a check-in.

Sorry to hear that the Huet '08 was not in its glory. Did it get any decanter time before drinking?

Also interesting that you found Raffault kept pace with Rougeard. The price certainly hasn't. The last few times I've tasted them, my palate is definitely shifting away from Rougeard and towards Raffault; I think it's the textural difference that you describe.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Thanks for these notes. I am sitting on a long vertical of Croix Boissee so always glad when someone does a check-in.

Sorry to hear that the Huet '08 was not in its glory. Did it get any decanter time before drinking?

Also interesting that you found Raffault kept pace with Rougeard. The price certainly hasn't. The last few times I've tasted them, my palate is definitely shifting away from Rougeard and towards Raffault; I think it's the textural difference that you describe.

Said textural difference likely a left-over from the new oak, even if no longer present in the aroma and taste.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Thanks for these notes. I am sitting on a long vertical of Croix Boissee so always glad when someone does a check-in.

Sorry to hear that the Huet '08 was not in its glory. Did it get any decanter time before drinking?

Also interesting that you found Raffault kept pace with Rougeard. The price certainly hasn't. The last few times I've tasted them, my palate is definitely shifting away from Rougeard and towards Raffault; I think it's the textural difference that you describe.

I believe the '08 Huet was a pop and pour. I personally think it was just a damaged or flawed bottle. It didn't really get that much better in the glass.

The contrast between the Rougeard and the Raffault was interesting. The Rougeard's silkiness had a certain polish and showiness to it while the Raffault was more understated, linear, and old school, if that makes sense.

Granted, the Raffault is 20 years older from a better vintage, which is probably another reason it attained a similar level of finesse to the Rougeard.
 
Sounds like a nice dinner, and good that you could simultaneously appreciate the pleasures of Rougeard and Raffault.
 
It was a nice dinner. Lots of fun!

Yule already knows that I disagree about the '08 Huet. I thought it was fine as did one of the other people there. I took the rest of the bottle home as I had brought it. I tried it the next day and detected no flaws.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
It was a nice dinner. Lots of fun!

Yule already knows that I disagree about the '08 Huet. I thought it was fine as did one of the other people there. I took the rest of the bottle home as I had brought it. I tried it the next day and detected no flaws.

We'll be able to open up another '08 Huet stickie one day once my package from WineBid finally makes its way out of FedEx purgatory. (I think my poor '08 Clos du Bourg Premiere Trie has gone full Phileas Fogg at this point).

It's a shame we couldn't do that side by side.
 
i have a thon of both! we live in Yountville and happy to host. we also have 3 winemaker families that would be interested in Huet-a-thon. early 2024?
 
originally posted by Mark Anisman:
i have a thon of both! we live in Yountville and happy to host. we also have 3 winemaker families that would be interested in Huet-a-thon. early 2024?

That sounds fun! Hopefully we can get a disorderly Huet-a-thon happening early next year.
 
originally posted by Mark Anisman:
west coast Huet-a-thon? Brad might even come! cheers to glou.sf
Who is glou.sf? I just saw a CT note from same.

Mark Lipton
P.s. I can bring out a ‘96 CdB 1er Trie and various other bottlings when I come a-Callin’ in Jan.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Mark Anisman:
west coast Huet-a-thon? Brad might even come! cheers to glou.sf
Who is glou.sf? I just saw a CT note from same.

Mark Lipton
P.s. I can bring out a ‘96 CdB 1er Trie and various other bottlings when I come a-Callin’ in Jan.

He was one of the attendees at the dinner. Very cool guy with a great palate. I don't think he is on Disorder.

I can also bring that '08 CdB Premiere Trie -- a mini-vertical!
 
That's a list...

Let's all recognize there is no "Raffault" in Chinon, there's others. I think we all are assuming Olga, but Jean Maurice and others would not appreciate.
 
originally posted by BJ:
That's a list...

Let's all recognize there is no "Raffault" in Chinon, there's others. I think we all are assuming Olga, but Jean Maurice and others would not appreciate.

I take it you mean that there is no Olga in Chinon, since Raffault is certainly there. Jean is certainly a Raffault as is Olga's granddaughter, Sylvie. It's true that Ernest Zenninger made the wine for many years after Olga's husband died in 1947, but it was never his winery as far as I know.
 
originally posted by MLipton:

Who is glou.sf? I just saw a CT note from same.

He's not on Disorder. He's a personal friend (his wife, too) and is a member of my Peninsula restaurant offline group which occasionally drifts into SF (Taishan Cuisine!).
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by BJ:
That's a list...

Let's all recognize there is no "Raffault" in Chinon, there's others. I think we all are assuming Olga, but Jean Maurice and others would not appreciate.

I take it you mean that there is no Olga in Chinon, since Raffault is certainly there. Jean is certainly a Raffault as is Olga's granddaughter, Sylvie. It's true that Ernest Zenninger made the wine for many years after Olga's husband died in 1947, but it was never his winery as far as I know.
Jonathan, I think BJ was complaining that the original list of wines just says "Raffault" but there are at least two wineries with that name.

I hit up Mr. Google but only found two Raffault domaines:
-- Olga Raffault, which was founded as an asparagus farm in 1931 by Pierre Raffault (Olga was the Mrs.), with the wine work picked up by Ernest Zenninger after Pierre's death. Eventually, her son Jean got involved, and now the estate is in the hands of her granddaughter, Sylvie.
-- Jean-Maurice Raffault, which was founded by Maurice Raffault maybe in the 1940s (judging by the photograph), greatly expanded by his son Jean-Maurice starting in 1973, and now run by J-M's son, Rodolphe.
 
Maybe, but then he should have said that there's more than one Raffault in Chinon, not that there's no Raffault there. His next sentence, though, makes more sense in your explanation of it.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Maybe, but then he should have said that there's more than one Raffault in Chinon, not that there's no Raffault there. His next sentence, though, makes more sense in your explanation of it.

Perhaps by there's no "Raffault" in Chinon BJ meant something different than there's no Raffault in Chinon.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Maybe, but then he should have said that there's more than one Raffault in Chinon, not that there's no Raffault there. His next sentence, though, makes more sense in your explanation of it.

Perhaps by there's no "Raffault" in Chinon BJ meant something different than there's no Raffault in Chinon.

I'd be happy to see the phrase construed to make it accord with the case: that there is more than one "Raffault" in Chinon. Ideally one by BJ.
 
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