What would Steiner say?

[Jeff Grossman]

The most recent Chambers blast included this photo and description:

.
Gunderloch was my first stop on German soil as Johannes so kindly picked me up from the Frankfurt airport 20 minutes away!

When we arrived up at the top the Roter Hang, his crew was there excitedly watching the drone pilot and drone doing a test run spraying a biodynamic prep for the vineyards. If successful, all the vineyards could be sprayed in one day instead of all the crew having to climb up and down the steep slopes for three days with the spray packs on their backs. Needless to say, there was much celebration at the end of the day!

It's some kind of conceptual conflict to deliver homeopathic preps via drone, no?

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
What would Steiner say?The most recent Chambers blast included this photo and description:

.
Gunderloch was my first stop on German soil as Johannes so kindly picked me up from the Frankfurt airport 20 minutes away!

When we arrived up at the top the Roter Hang, his crew was there excitedly watching the drone pilot and drone doing a test run spraying a biodynamic prep for the vineyards. If successful, all the vineyards could be sprayed in one day instead of all the crew having to climb up and down the steep slopes for three days with the spray packs on their backs. Needless to say, there was much celebration at the end of the day!

It's some kind of conceptual conflict to deliver homeopathic preps via drone, no?

And if the prep is protection against mildew, it's still probably some form of Bordeaux mix, which is still terrible for the soil, maybe even as bad as the non-organic brew.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
What would Steiner say?The most recent Chambers blast included this photo and description:

.
Gunderloch was my first stop on German soil as Johannes so kindly picked me up from the Frankfurt airport 20 minutes away!

When we arrived up at the top the Roter Hang, his crew was there excitedly watching the drone pilot and drone doing a test run spraying a biodynamic prep for the vineyards. If successful, all the vineyards could be sprayed in one day instead of all the crew having to climb up and down the steep slopes for three days with the spray packs on their backs. Needless to say, there was much celebration at the end of the day!

It's some kind of conceptual conflict to deliver homeopathic preps via drone, no?

And if the prep is protection against mildew, it's still probably some form of Bordeaux mix, which is still terrible for the soil, maybe even as bad as the non-organic brew.

It isn’t.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
What would Steiner say?The most recent Chambers blast included this photo and description:

.
Gunderloch was my first stop on German soil as Johannes so kindly picked me up from the Frankfurt airport 20 minutes away!

When we arrived up at the top the Roter Hang, his crew was there excitedly watching the drone pilot and drone doing a test run spraying a biodynamic prep for the vineyards. If successful, all the vineyards could be sprayed in one day instead of all the crew having to climb up and down the steep slopes for three days with the spray packs on their backs. Needless to say, there was much celebration at the end of the day!

It's some kind of conceptual conflict to deliver homeopathic preps via drone, no?

And if the prep is protection against mildew, it's still probably some form of Bordeaux mix, which is still terrible for the soil, maybe even as bad as the non-organic brew.

It isn’t.

I'm sorry but I've read too many conflicting reports to accept a simple negation

 

[Keith Levenberg]

I guess it all depends on whether biodynamic processes were applied to mining the metals used in the drone.

 

[Steve Edmunds]

sulfur, innit?

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
sulfur, innit?

In the bordeaux blend? Yes.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
sulfur, innit?

In the bordeaux blend? Yes.

Nope. Unless you mean there is sulfur dioxide in wines made of a blend of bordeaux varieties. Bordeaux mixture has copper sulfate but no elemental sulfur.

And there is no Biodynamic grower anywhere who would ever mix BD preps with sprays for mildew, no matter what you might have read.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Yes, you are right, copper sulfate. I don't know where you get your information, but virtually every organic and bd winemaker uses preps made with copper sulfate whose basis goes back to the 19th century. If you are quibbling that it's not exactly Bordeaux mix, I leave that to you. The sulfate is what causes the harm. I have insufficient knowledge to make a final judgment. I can find you numbers of sites that will argue that copper sulfate is far more harmful than glysophate.

 

[Brian C]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Yes, you are right, copper sulfate. I don't know where you get your information, but virtually every organic and bd winemaker uses preps made with copper sulfate whose basis goes back to the 19th century. If you are quibbling that it's not exactly Bordeaux mix, I leave that to you. The sulfate is what causes the harm. I have insufficient knowledge to make a final judgment. I can find you numbers of sites that will argue that copper sulfate is far more harmful than glysophate.

Jonathan, I think the point you’re missing here is they’re talking about spraying biodynamic preparations in the article, which have nothing to do with mildew or copper or sulfates or anything you’re arguing about. It’s an unrelated thing.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

I can see that that might be so. But why would spraying against mildew not be something one would do from drones. If Mark is indeed saying that sulfate anti-mildew sprays have nothing to do with bd prep because it is not specifically bd (organic vineyards use it too), he is right, of course about that, though not, perhaps, about the relative harms caused by copper sulfate and glysophate.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I can see that that might be so. But why would spraying against mildew not be something one would do from drones. If Mark is indeed saying that sulfate anti-mildew sprays have nothing to do with bd prep because it is not specifically bd (organic vineyards use it too), he is right, of course about that, though not, perhaps, about the relative harms caused by copper sulfate and glysophate.

As Brian pointed out, two separate things are going on. The BD spray preparations, BD500 and 501 (horn manure and horn silica respectively) could and are (as seen in the photo) sprayed by drone after stirring them.

No question that herbicides and the copper in Bordeaux mixture are not good for the environment.

Why not spray mildew sprays by drone? The issue is quite straightforward: mildew invades through the stomata which are on the undersides of the leaves, ergo spraying from the ground up under the canopy is much more effective than spraying from above (which has been done for decades). Vineyards in Piemonte are often so steep that they have sprayed by helicopter. Drones are more precise, but the same problem exists in that you don't get the spray under the leaves.

This is why I am growing PiWi hybrids. Almost no sprays necessary because of the vines' resistance to powdery and downy mildew. Easier to get Demeter certification because you never exceed the annual maximums, or even get close to them.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I can see that that might be so. But why would spraying against mildew not be something one would do from drones. If Mark is indeed saying that sulfate anti-mildew sprays have nothing to do with bd prep because it is not specifically bd (organic vineyards use it too), he is right, of course about that, though not, perhaps, about the relative harms caused by copper sulfate and glysophate.

As Brian pointed out, two separate things are going on. The BD spray preparations, BD500 and 501 (horn manure and horn silica respectively) could and are (as seen in the photo) sprayed by drone after stirring them.

No question that herbicides and the copper in Bordeaux mixture are not good for the environment.

Why not spray mildew sprays by drone? The issue is quite straightforward: mildew invades through the stomata which are on the undersides of the leaves, ergo spraying from the ground up under the canopy is much more effective than spraying from above (which has been done for decades). Vineyards in Piemonte are often so steep that they have sprayed by helicopter. Drones are more precise, but the same problem exists in that you don't get the spray under the leaves.

This is why I am growing PiWi hybrids. Almost no sprays necessary because of the vines' resistance to powdery and downy mildew. Easier to get Demeter certification because you never exceed the annual maximums, or even get close to them.

Very persuasive. I wish you had been this clear at the outset. And, it's true, when they spray against mildew in the vineyard in front of our home, they spray upwards.

 

[Brian C]

The drones may be a new development, but the story isn’t. I remember reading about Larmandier Bernier spreading BD preps by helicopter at least a decade ago, and a similar playful mocking of how “un-biodynamic” that felt.
There’s enough good in biodynamics that I’m not super concerned with how they sprinkle their magic pixie dust personally.