Ridge

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Peter Creasey

Peter Creasey
Granted, the core board group here will frown, but here goes...

Ridge Geyserville Zinfandel Blend '17 -- Dark red, generous dark fruits, quite appealingly aromatic, round and full, NO edges, kept improving in the glass, great core of fruit, blueberries/blackberries, all the right components in their right places, very sorry it was my last bottle. [E]

Superb pairing with fried chicken on a tossed greens/black-eyed pea salad.

Have at it!!!

. . . . . . Pete
 
Eh, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke...

I opened 2003 their Santa Cruz Mountains Cabernet (now called Estate Cab) on the 30th. It was too primary and monolithic. There was still 1/2 the bottle left when I went to something else. Corked it and revisited 2 days later. It had really come around. Nice texture, well-balanced, and good length. I still have one bottle and it's gonna stay buried for a while.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Granted, the core board group here will frown, but here goes...
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If you actually knew anything about us you'd know that Ridge is much-beloved hereabouts. For example, 30+ notes on Ridge Zin alone at Chris' old hideout.
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Yes, apart from lamenting the occasional overuse of perfume, there is considerable admiration in these here parts.

For a wine such as this, some of the core might wonder at the deafening silence concerning oak or abv.
 
Sorry I apparently had a mistaken notion about there being Ridge Zin naysayers here as I wonder where I got that wrong impression.

Thanks for the clarification so I can acknowledge another example of the good tastes of the folks here.

I buy the Ridge Geyserville, Lytton Springs, and Pagani Ranch Zins every year. We really enjoy them with various types of dinners.

Mea culpa!

. . . . . . Pete
 
I have a sentimental attachment to Ridge Geyserville, having started with the ‘81 vintage. I still have a number of Geezers aging in the batcave, awaiting that perhaps mythical day when the oak fully integrates.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
I have a sentimental attachment to Ridge Geyserville, having started with the ‘81 vintage. I still have a number of Geezers aging in the batcave, awaiting that perhaps mythical day when the oak fully integrates.

Mark Lipton
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That’s about my experience.
And waiting, at this age, isn’t for me.

But I will say that, sometime in the ‘90’s, I visited the winery and bought as many old Geezers as they’d sell me and later, enjoyed every one of them. So maybe it’s not a myth.
Maybe . . .
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by MLipton:
I have a sentimental attachment to Ridge Geyserville, having started with the ‘81 vintage. I still have a number of Geezers aging in the batcave, awaiting that perhaps mythical day when the oak fully integrates.

Mark Lipton
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That’s about my experience.
And waiting, at this age, isn’t for me.

But I will say that, sometime in the ‘90’s, I visited the winery and bought as many old Geezers as they’d sell me and later, enjoyed every one of them. So maybe it’s not a myth.
Maybe . . .
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Jim, in our wine cellar I have a framed photo of me next to Paul Draper, who, along with Steve Edmunds and you. Is one of my winemaking idols.

Mark Lipton
 
At the last dinner my regular jeebus group did in November, one person brought '85 Geyserville. It blew everyone away, even the folks whose typical reaction to Zinfandel is a shrug of the shoulders.

The last couple of vintages of Estate Cab, 2018 and 2019 were way too oaky. Even the current head winemaker at Monte Bello admitted as such. He didn't make those wines. I never tasted 2020, but if it's anything like 2020 Monte Bello, it's a pass and not just because of the oak.

The reds that I have drunk which seem to deal with the oak are Mazzoni Home Ranch and Evangelho. Could it be because of the high percentage of Carignane (higher acidity)? Maybe that helps offset the oaky note? This is pure speculation. For me, Mazzoni is an under-the-radar Ridge red that ages very nicely and the oak is in service to the balance of the wine. I've never drunk one with less than 10 years of age so I have no idea what a young vintage is like. Youngest in my cellar is 2012.

The 2003 SCM Cab didn't exhibit any overt oak. On day 3, the balance was spot-on.
 
I may have mentioned this before but in the early ‘90’s I tasted very old Ridge, Zins (my recollection is ‘60’s and ‘70’s but I have long since lost clarity) and what came across consistently was that they all tasted like claret. Not what I expected but I have no other reference points so . . .
 
Yes, I have experienced old Ridge Zin tasting like Bordeaux. It doesn't to my taste lose its oak. But I have experience the turn toward Bordeaux flavor at 10-12 years. Maybe it takes longer for oak to go away. I have never experienced that in any other wine I have tasted both at 1 and at 20. If it is oaky young, it is oaky at least at 20.

But whenever I hear a winemaker say that new oak flavor goes away, or even integrates, my question always is, then why use it in the first place? It costs money and distorts the wine, all so you can wait for it to go away?
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

But whenever I hear a winemaker say that new oak flavor goes away, or even integrates, my question always is, then why use it in the first place? It costs money and distorts the wine, all so you can wait for it to go away?
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A fair question.
Since I feel much the same, I never used new wood.

But those that do point to reasons other than imparting an oaky smell or flavor. Much is made of tannin structure, color setting, more consistent slow ox, lack of tartrates, and the like, as well as what bugs may be lurking in used wood.
I never investigated those claims very deeply as I had no use for the smells and flavors, but others who I respect seemed confident in their use of new cooperage.

Perhaps, others here have more info than I - I’d actually like to hear more.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

But whenever I hear a winemaker say that new oak flavor goes away, or even integrates, my question always is, then why use it in the first place? It costs money and distorts the wine, all so you can wait for it to go away?
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It is an interesting question, and though there is not an absolutely provable answer, I think I have a pretty good idea of why this is the case (though quite possibly I am wrong; it happens).

In the 80s and going forward, many winemakers were paid cash bonuses based on "points" (whether that be Parker or more often The Wine Spectator). This was because the wines sold like crazy after a high score. Well, new oak was certainly part of the reason, along with deep color and thick texture. And many winemakers tasted their colleagues' wines which were similar.

This led inevitably to developing a "New World" palate, or better a California one. Winemakers - in my experience (and often consumers) - preferred this style over a more subtle, less extracted, higher acid old-world version, which they often considered thin and ungenerous. The previous generation trained the younger one, though there are many people who have completely broken out of this mold in recent years.

Also, Ridge is owned by a Japanese corporation that probably would prefer not to fiddle with a tried and true style that sells.

Just my two cents.
 
I can't speak for other wineries, but Ridge never changed their winemaking regimen, even through the Parker years. They've stayed the course to keep Ridge...well, Ridge.

As far as the new oak question that Jonathan poses, I'm going to ask Ed Kurtzman who is a friend of mine. Ed is the winemaker for Sandler (his own label) and August West (he's a partner). He's also the consulting winemaker for Freeman.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I'm one for whom the oak on Ridge has gotten to be too much.
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Ditto
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Ditto^2.

I really didn’t care for the slathered up style of 2015 Geyserville and Lytton Springs young, and that turned me off. But I also admit that I have very far from strong knowledge on this topic despite loving vintages from the 70s-90s (including 90s vintages when they were young).
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
I can't speak for other wineries, but Ridge never changed their winemaking regimen, even through the Parker years. They've stayed the course to keep Ridge...well, Ridge.
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Right. And that is the problem.
 
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