Ridge

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
How can a liquid that has been aged in oak taste of cedarwood, for example? Yet cedarwood is a perfectly legitimate description for oaky young reds, especially wines made predominately or entirely from Cabernet Sauvignon. There’s no getting round the fact that new or one-year-old French barrels seem to impart a cedary aroma (nicer than it sounds) to certain wines. (Tim Atkins)
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Sounds about right. We could however reenter the silly season and argue, given that cedar isn't exactly detected in woody Tempranillo or Pinot Noir, whether it is the Cabernet Sauvignon that brings out something particular in the oak or the other way around.

Also, IME cedarwood isn't limited to young reds; GPL and Lafite from the 60s qualify.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
But on the issue of whether it is "natural," old oak may be OK. Wine has to be held in something, and, while large, old, wood barrels may not predate cement, it certainly does predate INOX. So you may be OK on liking cedar, unless there is some sui generis reason for preferring INOX of which I am unaware.
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I'm totally OK with, even in favor of, neutral wood. It would be better than inox if it provides more thermal stability.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
How can a liquid that has been aged in oak taste of cedarwood, for example? Yet cedarwood is a perfectly legitimate description for oaky young reds, especially wines made predominately or entirely from Cabernet Sauvignon. There’s no getting round the fact that new or one-year-old French barrels seem to impart a cedary aroma (nicer than it sounds) to certain wines. (Tim Atkins)
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. We could however reenter the silly season and argue, given that cedar isn't exactly detected in woody Tempranillo or Pinot Noir, whether it is the Cabernet Sauvignon that brings out something particular in the oak or the other way around.

Also, IME cedarwood isn't limited to young reds; GPL and Lafite from the 60s qualify.
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I've had memorable cedar encounters with the Ribera del Dueros of Goyo Garcia Viadero, which are either 100% Tempranillo or contain 10%-15% Albillo. But I don't think I've ever encountered it in Pinot (nor might welcome it there).
 
I should say, I don't consider even new oak unnatural in itself. After all, all wood starts as new wood. I just hate the taste. I like wine that tastes like wine. If there were wood that was neutral from the get go (is there?), then I guess you could distinguish in terms of one not adding flavors. But if neutral equals used, as I said, all used was new once and you can't get to used except by using it.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I should say, I don't consider even new oak unnatural in itself. After all, all wood starts as new wood. I just hate the taste. I like wine that tastes like wine. If there were wood that was neutral from the get go (is there?), then I guess you could distinguish in terms of one not adding flavors. But if neutral equals used, as I said, all used was new once and you can't get to used except by using it.
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Afaik, there's no oak that is neutral from the get-go, though some producers claim to ask their coopers for new barrels that don't impart flavor. Whether that's possible, I don't know.

The fact that neutral barrels were once active and have to be used to become neutral is of no concern to me.

If by wine that tastes like wine you mean, from a process point of view, wine whose flavors are 100% derived from the vine, and not the forest, I agree with you. Neutral wood fulfils that requisite.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I've had memorable cedar encounters with the Ribera del Dueros of Goyo Garcia Viadero, which are either 100% Tempranillo or contain 10%-15% Albillo. But I don't think I've ever encountered it in Pinot (nor might welcome it there).
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Good to know. I'll keep my eyes (and mouth) open. I think I've been put off too much by enthusiasm for new French oak as part of the modernism that swept Rioja starting in the 1990s. Any suggestion of cedar was overwhelmed by vanilla, and I always had a sense the grape was ill-suited for NFO both structurally and in terms of resulting flavours. I may have jumped to conclusions.
 
Those who are naysayers or on the fence about this wine are encouraged to try it again. It is very rewarding.

Ridge Pagani Ranch Zin '18 -- Dark almost inky, voluptuous bouquet, lots of black fruits, round, generous flavors, no edges, well within its drinking window, no hurry but might not improve as it is so fine now. [E[

Served with ham, polenta, mustard greens, then chocolate chip cookie and chocolate cookie.

PR.jpg
. . . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Those who are naysayers or on the fence about this wine are encouraged to try it again. It is very rewarding.

Ridge Pagani Ranch Zin '18 -- Dark almost inky, voluptuous bouquet, lots of black fruits, round, generous flavors, no edges, well within its drinking window, no hurry but might not improve as it is so fine now. [E[

. . . . . . Pete
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I didn't get a chance to try the Pagani Ranch, but the '18 Mancini Ranch was excellent. '18 was very kind to Ridge Zins.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg: Still way too oaky for me.
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Jonathan, I actually thought later about the fact that I hadn't noticed or mentioned "oak". This reinforces my observation about how well all the components are integrated with this bottling (which observation I forgot to mention in my pseudo-tasting-note).

. . . . . . . Pete
 
I have tasted oaked wines where I don't taste the oak--Sociano Mallet being my usual example. Ridge is not one of those. That just means there's more for you.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I have tasted oaked wines where I don't taste the oak--Sociano Mallet being my usual example. Ridge is not one of those. That just means there's more for you.
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Look, Pete loves oaky, high-alcohol wines. His post history proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is a bit like a chef who has completely shot his palate either by smoking too much or using too much salt, so dishes that are over-salted do not taste salty enough. It is what it is. It is also perhaps a club with one member, as everyone here prefers wines that - stylistically - are antithetical to this.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Ridge wines absorb a good deal of their oak with time.
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So do many wines, though new American oak leaves a very distinct signature no matter how well the wood has been seasoned before the barrels are made. I'm not quite sure I get your point.
 
I cellar and drink Ridge. However, I would never think of opening any of my reds with less than 15 years of age. For a couple of years, K&L and WineBid were selling/auctioning older bottles in the $20-35 range. I took advantage of that as well as when I worked there and got the employee discount on library wines.

I don't buy Ridge reds anymore. I'm not gonna live long enough to drink them close to maturity. They're now making whites that are very good to excellent. Grenache Blanc (84% Grenache Blanc, 14% Picpoul, 2% Roussanne) and Alder Springs Falanghina/Vermentino blend (82%/18%). Those I have purchased, but I intend to drink them now or with about a year of cellaring. I don't bother with their Chardonnays.

Soon to be released is a 2023 Historic Vines Blanc. It's from Pagani and Mancini Ranch. 52% Palomino, 41% Muscadelle, 3% Semillon, 2% Chenin, 2% Burger. A friend tasted it and said it was right up my alley.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Yes, I have experienced old Ridge Zin tasting like Bordeaux.
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I have never had this experience, except in the sense that the weight and balance of the wines can become "claret-like". What I've found is that while well-balanced Zins can turn into a nice aged red, they become similar to one another and lose their sense of terroir.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Ridge wines absorb a good deal of their oak with time.
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So do many wines, though new American oak leaves a very distinct signature no matter how well the wood has been seasoned before the barrels are made. I'm not quite sure I get your point.
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Perhaps it can be discerned, but in blind tastings of oak trials I participated in years ago, the American oak treated like French oak (i.e. aged outdoors for a significant time before being made into barrels, traditional open fire bending) was closer in flavor impact to the French oak than to the classic American oak profile.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I have tasted oaked wines where I don't taste the oak--Sociano Mallet being my usual example. Ridge is not one of those. That just means there's more for you.
Click to expand...
Look, Pete loves oaky, high-alcohol wines. His post history proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is a bit like a chef who has completely shot his palate either by smoking too much or using too much salt, so dishes that are over-salted do not taste salty enough. It is what it is. It is also perhaps a club with one member, as everyone here prefers wines that - stylistically - are antithetical to this.
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I suspect that the perception of under-salted...just right...over-salted varies a lot in the population. That's the way it is for bitterness, alcohol, acidity and oakiness.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I have tasted oaked wines where I don't taste the oak--Sociano Mallet being my usual example. Ridge is not one of those. That just means there's more for you.
Click to expand...
Look, Pete loves oaky, high-alcohol wines. His post history proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is a bit like a chef who has completely shot his palate either by smoking too much or using too much salt, so dishes that are over-salted do not taste salty enough. It is what it is. It is also perhaps a club with one member, as everyone here prefers wines that - stylistically - are antithetical to this.
Click to expand...
I suspect that the perception of under-salted...just right...over-salted varies a lot in the population. That's the way it is for bitterness, alcohol, acidity and oakiness.
Click to expand...
It does vary, but if you drink very oaky wines on a regular basis, I believe you become inured; you simply don't notice it anymore.
 
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