Ridge

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

But whenever I hear a winemaker say that new oak flavor goes away, or even integrates, my question always is, then why use it in the first place? It costs money and distorts the wine, all so you can wait for it to go away?
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I think what they often mean is that in the young or newly released wine, the oak aroma and flavor is prominent and sometimes overshadows other flavors. But as the wine ages, both the strength and the character of the oak smell/flavor changes; not that it goes away. I.E. there is a young "new oak barrel" flavor and a mature "new oak barrel" flavor, and they are different. And indeed this has been my experience with a number of Napa Cabs, Bordeaux reds, Graves whites and Riojas. Probably other wines I'm not recalling now.

I would add that I don't think this is binary; in my experience although brand new barrels are much stronger, 2 or 3 year old oak barrels can still provide some of that "new oak" effect.
 
We had a 2021 Ridge Pagani (that I tried based on a visit and post by Prof. Lipton and loved). This wine is killer and *seems* different from recent Ridge wines that I've had. I plan on trying the 2022 Pagani and Lytton when they are released here. I think I also just have a thing for Pagani. I love the Bedrock version.

I didn't really notice the wood.
 
I prefer the Pagani Ranch over the Lytton Springs and Geyserville (but it's a fairly close call).

Here is what Ridge says...

Since 1991, Ridge has made zinfandel from the Pagani vineyard on the western side of Sonoma Valley. The majority of the vineyard was planted ninety to one hundred twenty years ago; portions of it were replanted between 2013—2018. The vineyard is meticulously tended by a quality-conscious family who has worked the land for four generations. An average site would have been abandoned during the thirteen years of Prohibition, or during the Depression. Its long survival is proof of its merit.
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. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by VLM:
We had a 2021 Ridge Pagani (that I tried based on a visit and post by Prof. Lipton and loved). This wine is killer and *seems* different from recent Ridge wines that I've had. I plan on trying the 2022 Pagani and Lytton when they are released here. I think I also just have a thing for Pagani. I love the Bedrock version.

I didn't really notice the wood.
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And more of an observation than a criticism, you probably did not notice the high alcohol either.
 
An opinion in a prior posting here pointedly posed a characterization of a personal preference.

The key elements of a pleasing wine are the quality of the fruit and the balance of the finished product.

Pagani Ranch is highly acclaimed for its quality. The Ridge Pagani Ranch Zin '18 is nicely in balance.

. . . . . Pete
 
"An opinion in a prior posting here pointedly posed a characterization of a personal preference."

maybe there are boreds out there where personal preference has no place, but this is not one of them.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Pagani Ranch is highly acclaimed for its quality.
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Why the passive voice? By a wine critic? This is a bizarre construction when what we do here is give our opinions.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

An opinion in a prior posting here pointedly posed a characterization of a personal preference.

The key elements of a pleasing wine are the quality of the fruit and the balance of the finished product.

Pagani Ranch is highly acclaimed for its quality. The Ridge Pagani Ranch Zin '18 is nicely in balance.

. . . . . Pete
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Unless you are trying to claim that you are providing a syllolgistic argument for why this wine is objectively pleasing, this post is nothing to the point. In the case that you are trying to do that, you need to read any serious discussion of logic, which will tell you that the validity of a syllogism depends on providing external validation of the opening proposition and consider the complete absence of any such validation of your opening proposition.
 
Jonathan, I was merely making a simple point -- that the quality of the fruit and the wine being in balance are the key elements when I look to enjoy a wine.

As an example, the Pagani Ranch Zin '18 measured up in my estimation.

. . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Jonathan, I was merely making a simple point -- that the quality of the fruit and the wine being in balance are the key elements when I look to enjoy a wine.

As an example, the Pagani Ranch Zin '18 measured up in my estimation.

. . . . Pete
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In this case, your first sentence should read the key elements in wine that please me are quality of fruit and balance. A second sentence could usefully define your definition of quality--ripeness? source, absence of vilification techniques that obscure fruit? You could have them concluded that you find these elements in Ridge and avoided the unfortunate. implications of your final sentence. Of course, we already knew you liked the wine.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by VLM:
We had a 2021 Ridge Pagani (that I tried based on a visit and post by Prof. Lipton and loved). This wine is killer and *seems* different from recent Ridge wines that I've had. I plan on trying the 2022 Pagani and Lytton when they are released here. I think I also just have a thing for Pagani. I love the Bedrock version.

I didn't really notice the wood.
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And more of an observation than a criticism, you probably did not notice the high alcohol either.
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You are correct, the alcohol didn't bother me at all but I do regularly drink Langhe wines and sometimes Grenache in the 14.5% neighborhood.
 
I don't have the luxury of drinking only wine that I like; my work forces lets me taste lots of wine from lots of places. Whether a matter of trying to divine quality and the essence of the bottle or just not wanted to get bogged down in "finding the middle C in my brain," I try to approach wines in the context in which they were produced.

My preferences are for the higher-acid, funky old-world wines but I do taste and drink new world wines on a regular basis. As Pete mentioned, it comes down to balance. I'd argue that a 15% Barossa Shiraz, CdP, or 16% Amarone can all show typicity (as in a sense of place while also giving clues to its vintage). Hell, even well-made Paso Robles wines can do this if you know what to look for while drinking it a degree or two below room temp. Sure, I'd prefer everything I drink to be 13.5% alcohol (or lower) but what with global warming and consumer predilections, those wines can be as difficult to find as horseheads in Tanunda.

-Eden (Ridge Lytton Springs remains my benchmark for Dry Creek Valley wines)
 
Balance is a word one hears a lot in the Southern Rhone as abvs are on a gradual but so far unending elevator to the unknown. Like you, for CdPs, my palate has adjusted or become inured (or injured) up to a point. But still only up to a point. Without being doctrinaire about it, I still haven't tasted a wine with sufficient acid and depth (as opposed to concentration)of fruit to withstand abvs north of 15%, which is a point higher than I can tolerate in Bordeaux and probably about the same in Zinfandel. Sure, a 16% CdP can still taste like a CdP, but like a CdP liqueur more than a wine. And the alcohol fumes hovering around in the glass can break through even into my booze soaked braion. This makes me well above the norm around here, but not quite off into the wild blue yonder. And the only tolerance I have for oak is if I can't taste it. Which has never been the case with Ridge Zin.
 
jonathan--run--do not walk--to your nearest wine shop that carries sang des cailloux vacqueyras. the 2020 doucinello is under 14%. notes in jll quoting the vigneron state 13.75%. in vinous it is stated as 13.9%. so clearly an under-14% southern Rhône. sang des cailloux has been one of my favourites since the 80s.
 
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