Domaine Anita Beaujolais

originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by BJ:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by BJ:
I wonder what Anita would say if she were on this thread. She might not appreciate it. Could this style simply be the result of a very clean approach, small barrel raising (which she employs), etc.?
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She should be here.

As far as I can tell, she is meticulously following rules that could make the same nice, clean wine from anything you toss in the hopper.

The 100-point wine, she says, has tastes of roasted coffee and vanilla.
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I appreciate the conversation in the generalities but I question the specifics. I don't think we know enough about individual domaines to make pronouncements.

Anita is brought in by Rosenthal and Germain by KLWM. Are we thinking they are the vanguard of the new wine sellout?

Again, just pushing the conversation.
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i doubt that either of these importers dictates the style of wine being made.

that is more of a north berkeley imports 'cuvee unique' sort of thing,
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My point is that they are traditionally known for importing non-spoofed wines. Are we saying these wines represent a "new spoof" and that these importers are leading the way by bringing them in?
 
originally posted by BJ:
My point is that they are traditionally known for importing non-spoofed wines. Are we saying these wines represent a "new spoof" and that these importers are leading the way by bringing them in?
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I don't think so. I think they are acting in an entirely consistent way with their past selves: they are seeking well-made wines, not too defect-ful, aligned with local tradition.

But that's shifting sands. I'll try to remember, when I get home, to post some comments from the late great Josh Raynolds about old-school Cornas -- it is not a nice picture... but that's the tradition, eh?
 
originally posted by BJ:
Eric, I'm also curious...are you suggesting the Lafarge's Beaujolais wines are chemically manipulated?
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Not at all. They are made "à la bourguignonne", therefore manipulated from a Bojo perspective.
And taste like a rather ordinary Passetoutgrain. Absolutely soulless, and not showing even a touch of the Beaujolais terroir.
From a guy that has been enjoying Lafarge Volnays, beyond rationality, for the past 40 years.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
originally posted by BJ:
Eric, I'm also curious...are you suggesting the Lafarge's Beaujolais wines are chemically manipulated?
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Not at all. They are made "à la bourguignonne", therefore manipulated from a Bojo perspective.
And taste like a rather ordinary Passetoutgrain. Absolutely soulless, and not showing even a touch of the Beaujolais terroir.
From a guy that has been enjoying Lafarge Volnays, beyond rationality, for the past 40 years.
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the crowd that stays late to taste of all Lafarge Beaujolais that follows their spectacular lineup of Volnays is the crowd that sits through the credits at the movie theater
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by BJ:
I wonder what Anita would say if she were on this thread. She might not appreciate it. Could this style simply be the result of a very clean approach, small barrel raising (which she employs), etc.?
Click to expand...
She should be here.

As far as I can tell, she is meticulously following rules that could make the same nice, clean wine from anything you toss in the hopper.

The 100-point wine, she says, has tastes of roasted coffee and vanilla.
Click to expand...

From the link:

"a été vinifiée "à la bourguignonne". Les raisins ont été égrappés, la cuve pigée avec ensuite un long élevage en fûts de chêne."

Chambertin ou Fleurie?
 
Personally, I have quite enjoyed recent vintages of Lafarge-Vial Beaujolais and feel their style has evolved somewhat over the years. I wonder if Eric has drunk their 2019 Fleurie Joie du Palais, for example? I found it a delight, and particularly so in the context of many 2019 Bojo that to me have tasted overripe with too much sucrosity. I would also say that I have drunk a fair few Lafarge Passetoutgrains and don’t think that wine resembles them.

For those craving more classic Bojo I thought the 2021 Grosse Pierre Chiroubles aux Craz was really good and without the harsh vegetal streak of some 2021s.
 
I don't think I tasted this wine specificaly, and Lafarge passetoutgrain is mostly for 70 years old Pinot noir vines, and is definively not the Passetoutgrain I had in mind...
Any occasion I have to drink Lafarge Burgundies is pure joy for me.
The Lafarge Vial leave me puzzled.
And every time I wonder why Burgundians consider Beaujolais traditions as vulgar and from low extraction vigneron culture?
Bourdieux would have called this "mépris de classe".
An then I remember that any burgundian producer can buy 10 ha in Fleurie for the price of 1 ha in Pommard or Volnay village.
And sell the wines with a premium related to their cult burgundian status.
Which makes a fairly good business sense.

Put differently, being able to buy any wine I want to from the beaujolais, and for a fair price, I find those burgundian style Beaujolais (Anita, Lafarge Vial, and a lot of others) totally useless, uninteresting and threatful for the terroir driven expression of Gamay from Beaujolais.
The same way Pélican was for Jura. Jura wines for Burgundy drinkers that consider real expression from Jura as a peasant aberation.

Especialy with the young generation of bojo vigneron.nes comming, making clean, precise, terroir driven wines that don't need 10 years of aging.
I would not trade one bottle of Pauline Passot Chirouble for any 100 points Suckling MàV from Dom. Anita.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I apologize for being the pestiferous one, Eric, but that list of horribles does not tell me specifically what the Northern Rhone is doing differently these days to make what I take you to be saying are correct, well-made, but soul-less wines. I am not disagreeing with you. I really just want to know.
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Systematic destemming, extraction enzymes, selected yeasts, gum arabic, AF temperature management, pH and TA corrections, polyphenols and tannins adjustements, micro-oxygenation,...
 
OK, but with respect Eric I'm confused about what you're saying...I'm not sure if it's two points or the same point.

1) A dislike for Burgundian style vinification in Beaujolais from folks like Lafarge, Jadot, Anita... resulting in atypical, dense wines like Passetoutgrains...

2) A distaste and dislike for chemically manipulated wines that sound like they result in similar wines to Burgundian-style vinified Beaujolais...

Or are they the same thing?

There was a jump in the conversation that is confusing.

I have not had Lafarge Beaujolais. I've had the Jadot many a time and never cared for it at all, with the exception of their BV, which I believe is vinified in the tradition of the Beaujolais. I think the Anita is much better than Jadot fwiw.

I despise Suckling as much as the next WTer, but scapegoating a wine based on his score is lazy argument (he gives all sorts of great wine, Raveneau etc. high scores).

I think two of us on this thread have actually tried Anita. I suggest others might try for themselves.

I think people here know my deep love for Beaujolais. We've spent 4-5 weeks there over the years, and love its human, vinous and physical nooks and crannies. I've been super frustrated by the naturelle direction there, ruining many a fine cuvee, as the next generation tries the next new thing (thankfully, it seems like that is shifting back). It seems like there is a new trend afoot there.

As I said in my initial post, I'm still not quite sure what I think of Anita wines. Definitely not traditional Beaujolais, but I do like them (though I probably wouldn't buy again). I think points are ridiculous, but giving them 100 points seems nuts, but not for stylistic reasons.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
I don't think I tasted this wine specificaly, and Lafarge passetoutgrain is mostly for 70 years old Pinot noir vines, and is definively not the Passetoutgrain I had in mind...
Any occasion I have to drink Lafarge Burgundies is pure joy for me.
The Lafarge Vial leave me puzzled.
And every time I wonder why Burgundians consider Beaujolais traditions as vulgar and from low extraction vigneron culture?
Bourdieux would have called this "mépris de classe".
An then I remember that any burgundian producer can buy 10 ha in Fleurie for the price of 1 ha in Pommard or Volnay village.
And sell the wines with a premium related to their cult burgundian status.
Which makes a fairly good business sense.

Put differently, being able to buy any wine I want to from the beaujolais, and for a fair price, I find those burgundian style Beaujolais (Anita, Lafarge Vial, and a lot of others) totally useless, uninteresting and threatful for the terroir driven expression of Gamay from Beaujolais.
The same way Pélican was for Jura. Jura wines for Burgundy drinkers that consider real expression from Jura as a peasant aberation.

Especialy with the young generation of bojo vigneron.nes comming, making clean, precise, terroir driven wines that don't need 10 years of aging.
I would not trade one bottle of Pauline Passot Chirouble for any 100 points Suckling MàV from Dom. Anita.
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It's whatever pleases you, but you should not attempt to impose your personal judgment on everyone. There can be different styles and it doesn't necessarily mean that only one of them is valid (nor does that mean that all styles are equally valid).
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Brézème:
I don't think I tasted this wine specificaly, and Lafarge passetoutgrain is mostly for 70 years old Pinot noir vines, and is definively not the Passetoutgrain I had in mind...
Any occasion I have to drink Lafarge Burgundies is pure joy for me.
The Lafarge Vial leave me puzzled.
And every time I wonder why Burgundians consider Beaujolais traditions as vulgar and from low extraction vigneron culture?
Bourdieux would have called this "mépris de classe".
An then I remember that any burgundian producer can buy 10 ha in Fleurie for the price of 1 ha in Pommard or Volnay village.
And sell the wines with a premium related to their cult burgundian status.
Which makes a fairly good business sense.

Put differently, being able to buy any wine I want to from the beaujolais, and for a fair price, I find those burgundian style Beaujolais (Anita, Lafarge Vial, and a lot of others) totally useless, uninteresting and threatful for the terroir driven expression of Gamay from Beaujolais.
The same way Pélican was for Jura. Jura wines for Burgundy drinkers that consider real expression from Jura as a peasant aberation.

Especialy with the young generation of bojo vigneron.nes comming, making clean, precise, terroir driven wines that don't need 10 years of aging.
I would not trade one bottle of Pauline Passot Chirouble for any 100 points Suckling MàV from Dom. Anita.
Click to expand...

It's whatever pleases you, but you should not attempt to impose your personal judgment on everyone. There can be different styles and it doesn't necessarily mean that only one of them is valid (nor does that mean that all styles are equally valid).
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Brézème:
I don't think I tasted this wine specificaly, and Lafarge passetoutgrain is mostly for 70 years old Pinot noir vines, and is definively not the Passetoutgrain I had in mind...
Any occasion I have to drink Lafarge Burgundies is pure joy for me.
The Lafarge Vial leave me puzzled.
And every time I wonder why Burgundians consider Beaujolais traditions as vulgar and from low extraction vigneron culture?
Bourdieux would have called this "mépris de classe".
An then I remember that any burgundian producer can buy 10 ha in Fleurie for the price of 1 ha in Pommard or Volnay village.
And sell the wines with a premium related to their cult burgundian status.
Which makes a fairly good business sense.

Put differently, being able to buy any wine I want to from the beaujolais, and for a fair price, I find those burgundian style Beaujolais (Anita, Lafarge Vial, and a lot of others) totally useless, uninteresting and threatful for the terroir driven expression of Gamay from Beaujolais.
The same way Pélican was for Jura. Jura wines for Burgundy drinkers that consider real expression from Jura as a peasant aberation.

Especialy with the young generation of bojo vigneron.nes comming, making clean, precise, terroir driven wines that don't need 10 years of aging.
I would not trade one bottle of Pauline Passot Chirouble for any 100 points Suckling MàV from Dom. Anita.
Click to expand...

It's whatever pleases you, but you should not attempt to impose your personal judgment on everyone. There can be different styles and it doesn't necessarily mean that only one of them is valid (nor does that mean that all styles are equally valid).
Click to expand...

I agree in principle, but I have a hard time with the ones that are not semi-carbonic or carbonic (e.g., the widely loved JP Brun) because they deviate too much from the "breed standard" set by the Chauvet dynasty. They feel like bait n' switch to me. Otoh, I really like some of the non-carbonic Gamays from Sérol, in part because I don't expect them to taste like Beaujolais.
 
Nobody's forcing you to buy the wine. And there's no danger of the whole of Beaujolais going the way of Anita, et al. The days when a Parker could force a whole region to change its ways are gone.

To use a phrase that's been on this board once or twice before: Let a thousand flowers bloom.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Nobody's forcing you to buy the wine. And there's no danger of the whole of Beaujolais going the way of Anita, et al. The days when a Parker could force a whole region to change its ways are gone.

To use a phrase that's been on this board once or twice before: Let a thousand flowers bloom.
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I was mostly reacting to "nor does that mean that all styles are equally valid" and what one (or I) might argue as being valid for a Beaujolais.
 
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