Spätburgunderstudy Feb 25th Hainan Chicken House

Robert Dentice

Robert Dentice
I am doing a Spätburgunderstudy on Sunday, February 25th from 12-4 at Hainan Chicken House in Sunset Park Brooklyn. Rahsaan came to the last NYC one and can hopefully comment. Spätburgunder is improving by leaps and bounds for a multitude of reasons. Obviously global warming is helping but also the young growers are very passionate about Pinot and have traveled to other regions, notably Burgundy, to learn. They are searching for the best sites, clonal selections and applying what they learned in both the vineyard and winery. Baden is clearly the most advanced but I am currently extremely excited about the Mosel. Sad to say the Ahr is still making too many wines in the older style of extraction and oak, there are a few bright spots there but I can't get the wines in the U.S. In the Mosel Jonas Dostert, Martin Müllen (Martin's son Jonas is in charge of the Pinot program) and Phil Lardot are three I would recommend.

If you are interested in trying a wide array of Spätburgunders this would be a great opportunity. I will be bringing a case or two from my cellar.

And just to be clear these are non profit events where the cost of the tickets go to the restaurant for food, corkage, space rental etc.

If you can't come I would recommend the restaurant its excellent and they have a reasonable corkage policy.

Spätburgundstudy

Tickets
 
Great event, way too many wines for me to even begin to take comprehensive notes. For the overall picture, Robert mentioned the dramatic movement over the past 5-10-15 years, and I agree, lots of energy in German Spätburgunder, with greater diversity in styles, cutting across generations and regions.

That said, one of my big takeaways from such a large tasting (easily 60+ wines) is that if we did something similar in Burgundy, there would have been more detailed variation in the wines. Much less specificity here and more similarities across the wines. Reinforcing my point that Burgundy is not the frame of reference for German Spätburgunder. But, that doesn't take anything away from these delicious and enjoyable wines. Lots of fun to be had!!

Some highlights included 2019 Lukas Dostert, such ripe rippling fruit and only 11.5% alcohol, ending with firm Mosel acidity. Very nice, and very few bottles. Speaking of the Mosel, 2017 Daniel Twardowski Ardoise was crisp lively and lovely but way overpriced. I was more impressed with the 2006 Molitor Brauneberger Klostergarten ***, elegant, composed, now I see what the Molitor fans mean. (Other vintages of Molitor floating around as well, but who can keep track...)

Everyone flocked to the Keller Bürgels, 2017, 2009 and 2007. I thought 2007 was the standout and surprisingly richer than the 2009, or at least more in the zone. 2017 was more delicate and perhaps better made. But not as harmonious. The 2018 Keller Reserve du Fils was also pretty impressive, and will apparently be a GG next year. Not at all 2018 blowsy, it had nice structure and depth. I think all of these wines are priced too aggressively on the open market, but such is life...

A trio of 2011 Hubers (Bienenberg, Schlossberg and Sommerhalde) were interesting for me, because they were all very harmonious and had digested their young oak. But did not show much terroir difference across them. Still, they were fun to drink.

Speaking of old fashioned, 2002 Kessler Assmannshauser Hollenberg did not convince, dark and unharmonious. Admittedly this wasn't the most clinical setting, but this is not what most of us look for these days.

Another old name - 2018 Stodden Herrenberg - was nice and far from 2018 blowsy, but perhaps not as seductive as one might like. Some complained that it was too tannic, but that seemed excessive, it was far from too tannic in an absolute sense, perhaps just in this crowd. I've often wondered about Stodden and this intrigued me, if not convinced me of the price.

On the other hand, 2008 Walter Centgrafenberg "J" did convince me, elegant and delicious, and then 2013 Fürst Centgrafenberg also no slouch, perhaps more and better texture. But the vineyard class apparent in both. Some things are classic for a reason.

Of course plenty of the new Baden classics/darlings, Enderle & Moll and Wasenhaus are always delicious (also Shelter Winery, a newcomer), across vintages and bottlings. Pure wine juice. I was especially happy to enjoy recent vintage E&M because I haven't had them in a while. Great to see them in form.

For the pre-current-darling Baden, 2015 Mobitz Kanzel was a lovely alternate expression. The nose was gorgeous and deep and floral, but the palate a bit ashy and less enjoyable. Still, lovely.

I'm a Rebholz fan, so was happy to taste 2007 Spätlese trocken, still plenty of fruit and poise, would love to have a bottle with dinner. The 2016 R was also quite delicious and better than my previous experiences.

I was very curious to taste the 2018 Christmann Gimmeldingen, given what I've heard about changes at the winery. It was certainly more elegant than I feared and intrigued me enough to further explore.

I was disappointed in the 3 available 2002 Holger Kochs, entry level wines, but a bit tart and natty, especially the 2022 Herrenstuck N. But, I remain a Koch partisan and am happy to be told of their virtues.

Many many many many many many other wines (including roses, sparkling wines, 2002 Spätburgunder eiswein etc etc) most of them delicious, so another takeaway is that this is a category with lots of great options that more people should appreciate...
 
Wow, that sounds like an embarrassment of riches. No Martin Müllen Spätburgunder? I thought there might have been

Mark Lipton
 
Embarrassment of riches indeed.

I didn't drink any Martin Müllen, but I didn't even come close to tasting all the wines on all the tables. I think Robert may have had a more comprehensive overview. Is Müllen one of your favorites?
 
Looks like a good cross-section and a fun tasting, I would have liked to attend. I'm going to be really interested to see how some of these wines age. I will bet that we find the results mixed - I've already seen a decline in some of the wines you mention, over only 5 years from vintage. Specifically, it seems that unlike some other areas that have been growing Pinot Noir for much longer, vineyard specificity and "level", as well as price tag don't seem to directly drive ageability (yet?).
 
Thanks for the lively notes, Rahsaan. Coincidentally opened a solitary bottle of 2012 Holger Koch Kaiserstuhl 12.5% last night, still bearing that nostalgic Selection Massale sticker. Lovely aromatics perfect balance, no sign of oak, zero flaws. Perhaps a tad unspecific, to surf on one of your themes, but I wasn't complaining, as you weren't either.

And Robert, congrats on the surely amazing event and, last but not least, your first ever Lyle Fass offering :)
 
originally posted by mlawton:
I've already seen a decline in some of the wines you mention, over only 5 years from vintage. Specifically, it seems that unlike some other areas that have been growing Pinot Noir for much longer, vineyard specificity and "level", as well as price tag don't seem to directly drive ageability (yet?).

Are you talking about the Pure Wine Juice wines like E&M, or more specifically Wasenhaus? I've had some nice E&M wines with 5 years plus of age but that's not the category I devote my limited storage to aging. I view those wines in line with the carbonic Beaujolais like Descombes, Foillard, etc. Very very delicious, but not in the same conversation as $100+ red Burgundy, which is why the Wasenhaus prices are crazy, even in Germany.

But, the Wasenhaus wines are tasty and I guess they have their market, so I don't want to be a hater! (And of course there is plenty of simple $100+ red Burgundy that shouldn't be in the same conversation as $100+ red Burgundy)
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
...a solitary bottle of 2012 Holger Koch Kaiserstuhl 12.5% last night...Lovely aromatics perfect balance, no sign of oak, zero flaws. Perhaps a tad unspecific, to surf on one of your themes, but I wasn't complaining, as you weren't either.

We also had a solitary bottle of 2022 Kaiserstuhl yesterday, but it did not show very well. Maybe just needs time to sort itself out in bottle. Of course that one is not going to be very specific, but that is not its goal. I haven't had great experiences with 2021 or 2022 Koch, but haven't had the higher-end cuvees from either vintage and continue to give them the benefit of the doubt!
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by mlawton:
I've already seen a decline in some of the wines you mention, over only 5 years from vintage. Specifically, it seems that unlike some other areas that have been growing Pinot Noir for much longer, vineyard specificity and "level", as well as price tag don't seem to directly drive ageability (yet?).

Are you talking about the Pure Wine Juice wines like E&M, or more specifically Wasenhaus? I've had some nice E&M wines with 5 years plus of age but that's not the category I devote my limited storage to aging. I view those wines in line with the carbonic Beaujolais like Descombes, Foillard, etc. Very very delicious, but not in the same conversation as $100+ red Burgundy, which is why the Wasenhaus prices are crazy, even in Germany.

But, the Wasenhaus wines are tasty and I guess they have their market, so I don't want to be a hater! (And of course there is plenty of simple $100+ red Burgundy that shouldn't be in the same conversation as $100+ red Burgundy)

I was not referring to Wasenhaus, Everything I've opened from them has been super delicious and the "levels" do seem to be valid, at least with the minimum aging that's possible so far. I have not seen any decline from their wines over time either. I'm not sure I'd be paying $100 for them, but I don't pay $100 for much of anything these days other than a tank of diesel.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Great event, way too many wines for me to even begin to take comprehensive notes. For the overall picture, Robert mentioned the dramatic movement over the past 5-10-15 years, and I agree, lots of energy in German Spätburgunder, with greater diversity in styles, cutting across generations and regions.
Did you taste any wines from Ziereisen in Baden? If so, wondering about your impressions. That is a lot of wine to taste, for sure; hope there was something at the restaurant you could eat.
 
Rahsaan, thank you so much for posting your notes. This was intentionally a chaotic event with too many wines. The prior one at Vinegar Hill House was much more serious and focused and we mostly knew the wines were going to be good because everyone who picked them knew the wines. For this event I wanted to do a much broader lineup to taste a lot of German Pinots in one setting to walk away with some high level learnings. And I think we succeeded.

Some of my observations:

I do agree that there would have been much more diversity and uniqueness if this would have been done with Burgundy or Oregon for that matter. Yet I do think the regions are starting to develop their own signatures. We had wines from 11 different German regions! That is tough to do with German reds in the U.S...one was technically a Frühburgunder.

The winemakers are still learning a lot about stylistic differences and you can see this with the younger ones like Dostert, next they will focus on Terrior differences.

I think there is a lot of value at the low end price point with German reds. We had many good wines in the $20-35 range. This is a tough price point for Pinot.

I am super excited about the Mosel. I loved the Dostert (we sell them at source), Müllen (I love the wine so much I volunteered to write Lyle's offer), Daniel Twardowski (we also sell these), Steinmetz, Ulli Stein and even the Max Richter wines were very nice if lacking maybe a little of excitement for me. I also really love Phil Lardots recent Pinots and it was a shame we did not have one but they are so delicious I drank them all!

I love German Rosés both light and heavy ones! And the Pfeffinger Blanc de Noir was excellent.

As much as I love the Mosel, Baden still rules the day for across the board best Pinots in Germany. The wines are much different than the ones I like in the Mosel which is very cool because I am happy to have both. The Möbitz was excellent as were all of the Wasenhaus but we know that.

The Southern Pfalz is a place to watch!

The Rheingau has fallen of the face of the earth! The JB Becker was fine but not in the same league as most of the other wines and I missed tasting the Eva Fricke which I am bummed about.

The Ahr! I am still hopeful. I really worked hard to track down the Bertram-Baltes wines, they miraculously arrived the day before. I cracked one for dinner on Saturday and fell in love with it. It was enchanting. Mildly flawed but in a way that made me like it more. I noted an underripe green aspect but it did not bother me. Some of the other wines were even more effected by this trait and they were universally not liked. All four bottles were 3/4 full at the end of the event including one of their top bottlings. I hope it was just attributable to the terrible disaster in 2021. I am actually going to buy more of them so I have faith and can't wait to taster their 22s. I hear there are a few new producers with lighter touches and that some of the older ones are toning it down and I plan to visit again this year. The vineyards are too great for them not to be part of the German Pinot discussion. Oh the 02 Stodden was excellent and a real upside surprise.

Overall German Pinot is something to be very excited about and definitely has a bright future.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Wow, that sounds like an embarrassment of riches. No Martin Müllen Spätburgunder? I thought there might have been

Mark Lipton

I absolutely adore this wine I did a similar tasting to this in the Mosel in December with over 50 wines and the Martin Müllen 20 and 21 were my favorite wines. Jonas, the son, is responsible for the Pinot program, he is going to be a star. I loved the wine so much I volunteered to write Lyle's offer. The wines are a steal for $40.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
Looks like a good cross-section and a fun tasting, I would have liked to attend. I'm going to be really interested to see how some of these wines age. I will bet that we find the results mixed - I've already seen a decline in some of the wines you mention, over only 5 years from vintage. Specifically, it seems that unlike some other areas that have been growing Pinot Noir for much longer, vineyard specificity and "level", as well as price tag don't seem to directly drive ageability (yet?).

I am very curious about aging as well.

From what I have seen so far many wines in this category hold up fine but don't evolve. I had a very young 2007 E&M last year but it did not benefit from aging. I have not had too many German Pinots that develop the tertiary flavors theway Burgundy does which is not surprising. The 02 Jean Stoddard Herrenberg yesterday was just starting to turn the corner. And I like the Kellers much more with age than in their youth. Time will tell.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
Rahsaan, did you happen to capture any information on clonal selections for any of your favorites?

You probably know better than I do that this is key, and probably another explanation for rising quality.

My shorthand used to be "German clones = Bad", "French clones = Good" (hence the H Koch advantage for many years), but I know it's more complicated than that these days.

There was discussion sparked by J Bonne about the widespread reduction, which some attributed to reductive winemaking for reds in traditionally white wine regions. Not sure if that logic rigorously holds, but probably some truth.
 
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