CWD: recent wines II (2024-02)

originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I'd normally answer that 2014 may not be in a good place right now, but I suspect your bottles came from a source here in Paris where I've inexplicably had lots of disappointing older bottles (even though every bottle I've bought there has been taken up from the cellar beneath the store), so there may be something else going on here.

One of the reasons I'm trying to take notes with more frequency is that I only have notes on 25% of the 2014s I've had so far and only one of them good. A M-G Vosne, but it still felt like it needed some time to stitch together.

Setting aside producer and vintage, do you have a general take on 2014 and where it is headed? If you want to talk about specific producers or wines, that's great too.
After 2005, I began to cut back my purchases due to both my age and the size of my cellar, generally buying only when I found wines at what I considered stupid prices. Add to that, beginning in 2014, I have been living almost half time in France. The result is that I never bought a single bottle of 2014 red Burgundy to cellar, but again, that's not because I dislike the vintage. I've drunk plenty in French restaurants where they were generally overlooked by consumers in favor of the more expensive but less ready-to-drink-young 2016s and 2015s. But the 2014s have generally disappeared from the restaurant lists here (and the wonderful 2017s are almost all gone, too). I generally think of it as a vintage of lighter wines (not prejudicial) with good freshness, standing qualitatively between 2017 and 2011. Consequently, I'd have to think 2014s are just going through a shutdown phase and I'd leave them until the latter part of the decade. But there can be plenty of exceptions, I'm sure, as there always are.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:

Re: Evocelles, it's generally regarded as a premier cru quality vineyard that is classified only as village due to the small-mindedness of producers living in Gevrey who did not want to have a premier cru outside of the Gevrey boundaries. Louis's has always shown very well when I've tasted it young.

Interesting. Good to know. I also have good memories of young Boillot Evocelles. I don't think it was just me being blinded by the label, but for these two bottles of 2014, consumed in early 2024, there was a stark difference in class and finesse between the Brouillards and the Evocelles. I suppose I shouldn't generalize further than that!
 
originally posted by VLM:
CWD: recent wines II (2024-02)We had a run of guests so got to open more bottles than normal.

2018 Azienda Agricola Caparsa Chianti Classico Caparsa - Italy, Tuscany, Chianti, Chianti Classico DOCG (2/20/2024)
I think we drink more Caparsa CC than any other wine. It was again a great servant tonight. A lighter and edgier version than the 2016 with more twang and herbs. Went down way too fast. (89 points)

2018 Monteraponi Chianti Classico - Italy, Tuscany, Chianti, Chianti Classico DOCG (2/13/2024)
Still good, but this bottle appears on the downslope. I only have a few left and will queue them up for consumption this year. It's been a good servant to our table. (87 points)

Interesting to read your note about Monteraponi being on the down slope. Do you think it's just the winemaking style of this producer or do you feel Chainti Classicos in general should be drunk young? (seems like the Caparsa is still in fine shape).
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
don't have tons of '14 reds but generally trying to stay away for the moment. Had some weird experiences, Boillot including, where my take was something along the lines of the fruit/mineral/earth development relative to structure was all out of whack.

have not touched any m-g but was considering taking one for the team with a les vignes rondes (in case anyone has tasted lately)

hey, maybe it's red wine premox! :)

Yeah, that's the fear, more structure than stuffing. M-G's haven't shown that lack of fruit to structure (but Chaignots was the most closed of 2013-14-15 a couple years back). I honestly thought it would be a much more appealing vintage.

If it is red pre-mox, we're fucked.

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
does 1996 say Croix Boissée on the label, or is it still the "signature" version like the 1995?

Nope, just has the vintage. Funny story, I bought 3 cases of the 1996 after trying a bottle from Mills in Annapolis for something like $13.99 a bottle. Unbelievable deal. I was a grad student drinking like a king!
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I'd normally answer that 2014 may not be in a good place right now, but I suspect your bottles came from a source here in Paris where I've inexplicably had lots of disappointing older bottles (even though every bottle I've bought there has been taken up from the cellar beneath the store), so there may be something else going on here.

One of the reasons I'm trying to take notes with more frequency is that I only have notes on 25% of the 2014s I've had so far and only one of them good. A M-G Vosne, but it still felt like it needed some time to stitch together.

Setting aside producer and vintage, do you have a general take on 2014 and where it is headed? If you want to talk about specific producers or wines, that's great too.
After 2005, I began to cut back my purchases due to both my age and the size of my cellar, generally buying only when I found wines at what I considered stupid prices. Add to that, beginning in 2014, I have been living almost half time in France. The result is that I never bought a single bottle of 2014 red Burgundy to cellar, but again, that's not because I dislike the vintage. I've drunk plenty in French restaurants where they were generally overlooked by consumers in favor of the more expensive but less ready-to-drink-young 2016s and 2015s. But the 2014s have generally disappeared from the restaurant lists here (and the wonderful 2017s are almost all gone, too). I generally think of it as a vintage of lighter wines (not prejudicial) with good freshness, standing qualitatively between 2017 and 2011. Consequently, I'd have to think 2014s are just going through a shutdown phase and I'd leave them until the latter part of the decade. But there can be plenty of exceptions, I'm sure, as there always are.

I've got a decent amount (for me) of 2014. 70% of it is Mugneret-Gibourg, Barthod, Lignier, Chevillon, and Fourrier in that order so I hope the old producer over vintage works out.
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
originally posted by VLM:
CWD: recent wines II (2024-02)We had a run of guests so got to open more bottles than normal.

2018 Azienda Agricola Caparsa Chianti Classico Caparsa - Italy, Tuscany, Chianti, Chianti Classico DOCG (2/20/2024)
I think we drink more Caparsa CC than any other wine. It was again a great servant tonight. A lighter and edgier version than the 2016 with more twang and herbs. Went down way too fast. (89 points)

2018 Monteraponi Chianti Classico - Italy, Tuscany, Chianti, Chianti Classico DOCG (2/13/2024)
Still good, but this bottle appears on the downslope. I only have a few left and will queue them up for consumption this year. It's been a good servant to our table. (87 points)

Interesting to read your note about Monteraponi being on the down slope. Do you think it's just the winemaking style of this producer or do you feel Chainti Classicos in general should be drunk young? (seems like the Caparsa is still in fine shape).

I think this is particular to the Manteraponi. I pulled another bottle to try but that ended up being corked. I think I have 2 more bottles left so will give them a whirl soon. The Caparsa was in better shape but I'm not going to let my 2018 CCs get too old.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I'd normally answer that 2014 may not be in a good place right now, but I suspect your bottles came from a source here in Paris where I've inexplicably had lots of disappointing older bottles (even though every bottle I've bought there has been taken up from the cellar beneath the store), so there may be something else going on here.

One of the reasons I'm trying to take notes with more frequency is that I only have notes on 25% of the 2014s I've had so far and only one of them good. A M-G Vosne, but it still felt like it needed some time to stitch together.

Setting aside producer and vintage, do you have a general take on 2014 and where it is headed? If you want to talk about specific producers or wines, that's great too.
After 2005, I began to cut back my purchases due to both my age and the size of my cellar, generally buying only when I found wines at what I considered stupid prices. Add to that, beginning in 2014, I have been living almost half time in France. The result is that I never bought a single bottle of 2014 red Burgundy to cellar, but again, that's not because I dislike the vintage. I've drunk plenty in French restaurants where they were generally overlooked by consumers in favor of the more expensive but less ready-to-drink-young 2016s and 2015s. But the 2014s have generally disappeared from the restaurant lists here (and the wonderful 2017s are almost all gone, too). I generally think of it as a vintage of lighter wines (not prejudicial) with good freshness, standing qualitatively between 2017 and 2011. Consequently, I'd have to think 2014s are just going through a shutdown phase and I'd leave them until the latter part of the decade. But there can be plenty of exceptions, I'm sure, as there always are.

I've got a decent amount (for me) of 2014. 70% of it is Mugneret-Gibourg, Barthod, Lignier, Chevillon, and Fourrier in that order so I hope the old producer over vintage works out.

That’s a heavy Cote de Nuits list. No love for the Cote de Beaune?

Mark Lipton
 
I'm kind of hoping '14s are just shut down. I got some '14 H. Lignier Clos de la Roche that I assumed were in just a shut down phase. Will be a bummer if '14s are declining.
 
For what it's worth...

2014 Red Burgundy

2014 is NOT the greatest red wine vintage that I’ve ever tasted it IS however one of the tastiest. Essentially, these wines give the impression that they will never close (let’s see!) and will always deliver something delicious Basically I think you will never regret opening a bottle of 2014.

In the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, the 2014 reds would have been rightly lauded as a fine vintage. We simply have to accept that in the context of what has been delivered in the last 15 years, or-so, that many (without the necessary context) might describe 2014 as rather pedestrian. The wines clearly lack the overt ripeness of 09 and 15 (et-cetera) so might look a little shy if you have the two glasses together, whether you think that a good or a bad thing will be down to personal preference, but they are classic burgundy.

Burgundy Report

Pretty much my limited experience with the 2014 reds.

. . . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by VLM:
Nope, just has the vintage. Funny story, I bought 3 cases of the 1996 after trying a bottle from Mills in Annapolis for something like $13.99 a bottle. Unbelievable deal. I was a grad student drinking like a king!

insane closeout stories deserve a separate thread.

I wonder which vintage was first labeled Croix Boissée. Presumably Michael's 2000 already is.

For completeness you gents should also include 1996 Olek-Mery Les Tireaux, made by Bernard Baudry. Richard Kelley describes it as a parcel proximate to CB and similar in situation, but Matthieu in fact confirmed recently that it is a part of Croix Boissée proper.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Any recent experiences with 2007 La Croix Boissée?

Not since 2007 and I only have one bottle left. Saving it for a CB vertical that will probably never happen.

I am in for this. Let's make it happen. I might be down in Durham in late summer/early fall anyway. There's still one bottle of 2000 and one 2004 in my cellar.

100%. I've got 1996 and then 2002-2018 unbroken. Also assorted Guillot and Grezeaux I could throw in for fun. LMK when you have an idea of dates.

Y’all need to invite us Northerners. Lest we feel insulted.
 
originally posted by VLM:
Funny story, I bought 3 cases of the 1996... I was a grad student drinking like a king!

Weren't we all!

3 cases was beyond my quantity limit, but I was a grad student in Paris in the mid-00s, popping into shops to buy 95 and 96 Baudry on whims. Endless supply, reasonable prices. Same for Rougeard Poyeux and Bourg.

I think they call that well-spent youth.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by VLM:
Nope, just has the vintage. Funny story, I bought 3 cases of the 1996 after trying a bottle from Mills in Annapolis for something like $13.99 a bottle. Unbelievable deal. I was a grad student drinking like a king!

insane closeout stories deserve a separate thread.

I wonder which vintage was first labeled Croix Boissée. Presumably Michael's 2000 already is.

For completeness you gents should also include 1996 Olek-Mery Les Tireaux, made by Bernard Baudry. Richard Kelley describes it as a parcel proximate to CB and similar in situation, but Matthieu in fact confirmed recently that it is a part of Croix Boissée proper.

The 2000 does say Croix Boissee on the label, if I recall correctly. Although I have no idea if it was the first vintage to be labeled as such. I doubt it, frankly. 2000 was, however, the first vintage of Croix Boissee Blanc, I believe.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

as an aside, i'd be most curious about any impressions of '09 grezeaux and guillot, especially if consumed over multiple days as mine were last year.

Just for you, I decided to open a 2009 Grezeaux tonight. And, wouldn't you know, my bottle is noticeably corked. Hope that helps.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
Just for you, I decided to open a 2009 Grezeaux tonight. And, wouldn't you know, my bottle is noticeably corked. Hope that helps.

i loved 09 grezeaux thoroughly last year; i must be insensitive to tca
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
Just for you, I decided to open a 2009 Grezeaux tonight. And, wouldn't you know, my bottle is noticeably corked. Hope that helps.

i loved 09 grezeaux thoroughly last year; i must be insensitive to tca

I will revisit on days two and three. My understanding with cork taint is that, while the wine stays the same, one's sensitivity to TCA increases proportionally each day after the bottle is opened.
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
I'm kind of hoping '14s are just shut down. I got some '14 H. Lignier Clos de la Roche that I assumed were in just a shut down phase. Will be a bummer if '14s are declining.
Can you name a single Burgundy vintage where the wines were through at ten years? Even twenty? None in my experience, and that goes back to 1978, at least (and also picks up 1977; I have little experience with 1977).
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Yule Kim:
I'm kind of hoping '14s are just shut down. I got some '14 H. Lignier Clos de la Roche that I assumed were in just a shut down phase. Will be a bummer if '14s are declining.
Can you name a single Burgundy vintage where the wines were through at ten years? Even twenty? None in my experience, and that goes back to 1978, at least (and also picks up 1977; I have little experience with 1977).

I know Pavel was joking about the red wine premox, but who knows? I was mainly reacting to the comments he and Nathan were making about how the 14s are turning out. Not exactly shot, but not necessarily evolving towards a nice place.

I am assuming the '14s are just shut down and they will sort themselves out down the road, and that they are simply in an awkward place in their evolution.
 
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