Ten Little Wine Geeks

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Je ne sais would do the job perfectly well...

And Je sais pas does in fact do the job perfectly well in colloquial speech.

I have seen je ne sais in prose, but never heard it in spoken French. I have heard je sais pas. The ne is often dropped out when speaking. Or the really colloquial j'y pas, which is really just an orthographic convention to capture a verbal shortening. I'm sure Oswaldo would be happy to go wild with that as well.

I am tempted to tell the story (and since I'm going to, I have not successfully resisted the temptation) of the linguist professor arguing that English is the only language in which a double negative means, as it logically should, a positive. In most, it is still a negative. To which the philospher, Sidney Morganbesser answered "Yeah, yeah."

 

[Zachary Ross]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Je ne sais would do the job perfectly well...

And Je sais pas does in fact do the job perfectly well in colloquial speech.

I have seen je ne sais in prose, but never heard it in spoken French. I have heard je sais pas. The ne is often dropped out when speaking. Or the really colloquial j'y pas, which is really just an orthographic convention to capture a verbal shortening. I'm sure Oswaldo would be happy to go wild with that as well.

I am tempted to tell the story (and since I'm going to, I have not successfully resisted the temptation) of the linguist professor arguing that English is the only language in which a double negative means, as it logically should, a positive. In most, it is still a negative. To which the philospher, Sidney Morganbesser answered "Yeah, yeah."

I love this anecdote, but I understood that Morgenbesser's dismissive response was to the suggestion that a double positive never implies a negative in any language.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Zachary Ross:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Je ne sais would do the job perfectly well...

And Je sais pas does in fact do the job perfectly well in colloquial speech.

I have seen je ne sais in prose, but never heard it in spoken French. I have heard je sais pas. The ne is often dropped out when speaking. Or the really colloquial j'y pas, which is really just an orthographic convention to capture a verbal shortening. I'm sure Oswaldo would be happy to go wild with that as well.

I am tempted to tell the story (and since I'm going to, I have not successfully resisted the temptation) of the linguist professor arguing that English is the only language in which a double negative means, as it logically should, a positive. In most, it is still a negative. To which the philospher, Sidney Morganbesser answered "Yeah, yeah."

I love this anecdote, but I understood that Morgenbesser's dismissive response was to the suggestion that a double positive never implies a negative in any language.

Right you are. I miswrote. Thanks for the correction.

 

[robert ames]

all this discussion regarding double negatives and double positives has me thinking back to alternating circuit design, and how using the square root of a minus 1 made things simple. it of course doesn't exist. and not really relevant here, except in maybe creating thread drift.

 

[Zachary Ross]

i resemble that remark.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Zachary Ross:
i resemble that remark.

just don't try to reassemble it. . .

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Je ne sais would do the job perfectly well...

And Je sais pas does in fact do the job perfectly well in colloquial speech.

or just "sais pas."

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Je ne sais would do the job perfectly well...

And Je sais pas does in fact do the job perfectly well in colloquial speech.

or just "sais pas."

Yes, I was going to respond to Rahsaan that I have heard that even more synthetic version. Especially, with a shrug, from surly teenagers. Zépá.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by robert ames:
all this discussion regarding double negatives and double positives has me thinking back to alternating circuit design, and how using the square root of a minus 1 made things simple. it of course doesn't exist. and not really relevant here, except in maybe creating thread drift.

That reminds me of the one and only engineering class I ever took (quite an achievement at an engineering school) where we did a lot of circuit design and I learned about the Laplace transform. My big revelation was that impedance was a complex number. Mind blown!

Mark Lipton

 

[Jayson Cohen]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by robert ames:
all this discussion regarding double negatives and double positives has me thinking back to alternating circuit design, and how using the square root of a minus 1 made things simple. it of course doesn't exist. and not really relevant here, except in maybe creating thread drift.

That reminds me of the one and only engineering class I ever took (quite an achievement at an engineering school) where we did a lot of circuit design and I learned about the Laplace transform. My big revelation was that impedance was a complex number. Mind blown!

Mark Lipton

Naturally. It has to be.

 

[Jayson Cohen]

originally posted by robert ames:
all this discussion regarding double negatives and double positives has me thinking back to alternating circuit design, and how using the square root of a minus 1 made things simple. it of course doesn't exist. and not really relevant here, except in maybe creating thread drift.

Of course it exists.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by MLipton:
That reminds me of the one and only engineering class I ever took (quite an achievement at an engineering school) where we did a lot of circuit design and I learned about the Laplace transform. My big revelation was that impedance was a complex number. Mind blown!
Mark Lipton

a key to understanding premox

 

[Keith Levenberg]

"Eye rhyme" is a new one to me, but I'm familiar with slant rhyme. Obviously, however, the class of people entitled to object does not extend to people who accept verse with no rhyme.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Slant rhyme describes line ends in which the consonants rhyme, but not the vowels or vice versa. You may not be familiar with the term eye rhyme, but I’m sure you are familiar with examples, Tyger, Tyger if nothing else. If by unrhymed you mean blank verse, if you disallow that, you eliminate half of poetry in English, so the position falls of its own weight. But you are as much entitled to your hobbyhorse as Oswaldo and I are to ours.

 

[Marc Hanes]

OK, this is all great and such but where's the notes?

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Marc Hanes:
OK, this is all great and such but where's the notes?

The notes are on the stave,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

[maureen]

Brilliant and charming, Jeff.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

Thank you, Maureen.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
...no amount of Blakean orthographic jurisprudence can change that...

There was a little girl who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead.

When she was good she was very, very good
And when she was bad she was horrid.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
...no amount of Blakean orthographic jurisprudence can change that...

There was a little girl who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead.

When she was good she was very, very good
And when she was bad she was horrid.

And when she was bad she was co-ed.