The light, delicate, elegant red thread

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Yet another light, delicate red from an unexpected place - Swartland. Not sure it qualifies as elegant.

Swartland Red Blend "Curator" 2023, AA Badenhorst - medium purpley-red color; fruity raspberry aroma with Cinsault-like herbal notes; light body, very young tanky/fruity flavor with balancing acidity, minimal tannin but quite dry, medium length. It's rather simple, although distinctive. A blend of Cab, Grenache, Shiraz and Cinsault. It says it has 14% alc, but doesn't show it at all, in fact it's rather dangerously quaffable. Not quite my cup of tea, but good value at $13. I've had some excellent Chenin Blancs from this producer, and their basic Chenin is also good value. **(*)
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Everything I have had from Badenhorst has been great at the price point; I'm a fan.
 
Last night in a restaurant we had a bottle of 2023 Foradori 'Lezer' Vigneti delle Dolomiti IGT, lezer apparently a local dialect variant of leggero, a mostly Teroldego (but per the label 22% other unspecified grapes apparently Schiava, Lagrein and Merlot). Served chilled and 12.5% it was quaffed rapidly by all (even the one who said one glass of wine maximum).
 
well if we are going to bring the Boy Girl thing into the conversation, y'all must keep an eye out for Bourgueil Cuvée Déchainée from the law firm of Lamé Delisle Boucard

it's meant to be their quaffable entry point but it's a real Boy Girl, and having accumulated a mini vertical of 19-22 (because i drink things slowly and occasionally hoard them) i can say with confidence it qualifies for the thread
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
well if we are going to bring the Boy Girl thing into the conversation, y'all must keep an eye out for Bourgueil Cuvée Déchainée from the law firm of Lamé Delisle Boucard

it's meant to be their quaffable entry point but it's a real Boy Girl, and having accumulated a mini vertical of 19-22 (because i drink things slowly and occasionally hoard them) i can say with confidence it qualifies for the thread
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Heard. Now to find it here in the wine desert.

How is Loire Cab Franc pricing not going the way that Beaujolais has gone? Or ought I STFU?
 
originally posted by Ken Schramm:
How is Loire Cab Franc pricing not going the way that Beaujolais has gone? Or ought I STFU?
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That would actually be an interesting economic study, although obtaining the data necessary would be tricky. These kinds of wines don't show up much in Nielsen/IRI retail scan data or SipSource depletions.
 
originally posted by Ken Schramm:

How is Loire Cab Franc pricing not going the way that Beaujolais has gone? Or ought I STFU?
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Have you seen Rougeard?

I think both regions are still pretty reasonable overall, with obvious exceptions and creep for specific producers and specific cuvees. Wouldn't have thought Beaujolais is more expensive in general.

But I don't have comprehensive economic data either!
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by BJ:
Wow, I just don't think of Bourgueil as light.
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explain please
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I'm sure BJ can explain, but I'm not sure it needs explanation. He doesn't think Bourgueil is a light red. My wife doesn't like brussel sprouts. Many people on the board don't like CdP. These things happen.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Ken Schramm:

How is Loire Cab Franc pricing not going the way that Beaujolais has gone? Or ought I STFU?
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Have you seen Rougeard?

I think both regions are still pretty reasonable overall, with obvious exceptions and creep for specific producers and specific cuvees. Wouldn't have thought Beaujolais is more expensive in general.

But I don't have comprehensive economic data either!
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it seems most of the silly pricing is limited to Saumur/Anjou, right? Don't get me wrong - most of those wines are fabulous - but it would appear the Champagne-like "it is good because it is expensive" marketing strategy has not pervaded Chinon and Bourgueil nearly to the same extent. The best wines from the best parcels are creeping up in price there, but imo proportionately to their relative quality.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
... but it would appear the Champagne-like "it is good because it is expensive" marketing strategy has not pervaded Chinon and Bourgueil nearly to the same extent.
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Sure. But is that strategy really so much further developed in Beaujolais, as was the initial claim?
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
... but it would appear the Champagne-like "it is good because it is expensive" marketing strategy has not pervaded Chinon and Bourgueil nearly to the same extent.
Click to expand...

Sure. But is that strategy really so much further developed in Beaujolais, as was the initial claim?
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Clos Rougeard aside, these phenomena in Beaujolais may predate the Loire's, no? Metras Ultime, Foillard 3.14, etc.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
... but it would appear the Champagne-like "it is good because it is expensive" marketing strategy has not pervaded Chinon and Bourgueil nearly to the same extent.
Click to expand...

Sure. But is that strategy really so much further developed in Beaujolais, as was the initial claim?
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Clos Rougeard aside, these phenomena in Beaujolais may predate the Loire's, no? Metras Ultime, Foillard 3.14, etc.
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Fair enough. I think Foillard 3.14 began in 2003, when Rougeard was still a 'normal' wine that I could buy in quantity with my grad student stipend.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Ken Schramm:

How is Loire Cab Franc pricing not going the way that Beaujolais has gone? Or ought I STFU?
Click to expand...

Have you seen Rougeard?

I think both regions are still pretty reasonable overall, with obvious exceptions and creep for specific producers and specific cuvees. Wouldn't have thought Beaujolais is more expensive in general.

But I don't have comprehensive economic data either!
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Yeah, Rougeard has gotten plenty spendy, but it seems like an outlier. There are spendy Cabernet Francs from Bordeaux, too (Cheval Blanc and Lafluer come to mind).

My persective on it is this - from where I sit, the number of really delicious bottles of Cab Franc from the Loire still coming in at $15-25 seems much higher, and the overall price creep slower. As the world figured out LaPierre and Roillette Tardive, Foillard, Jean-Paul Thévenet and Guy Breton, that stuff jumped out of that category to ~$30 to >$35, but so did other stuff I love like Bouland, Pavillon de Chavannes, Brun CdP and Thivin. A lot of the stuff that I have loved from Chinon and Bourgeuil has not seen those kinds of increases - things like Domaine de la Cotelleraie, Guion, Baudry and Jaulin-Plaisantin. Still sub $25, and some of it still sub $20. As for stuff I always considered more premium, I can still get Olga Raffault Les Picasses for under $30 here.

Loire Cab Franc still feels like 15 years ago to me.
 
More back toward the actual topic, H & P Jouan Bourgogne Passetoutgrains (Passe-tout-grains?) has been a stalwart in this category for me. My experience with the style is insufficient to know how truly typistic it is, but it hits the notes for this thread. I'd love to hear from the hive mind about other standouts.
 
originally posted by Ken Schramm:
More back toward the actual topic, H & P Jouan Bourgogne Passetoutgrains (Passe-tout-grains?) has been a stalwart in this category for me. My experience with the style is insufficient to know how truly typistic it is, but it hits the notes for this thread. I'd love to hear from the hive mind about other standouts.
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Ken,
I haven't had Jouan's PTG, but I'd nominate their wines as across-the-board candidates for this thread. No other producer's wines remind me as much of Truchot's: light-bodied, feminine and highly perfumed.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
I haven't had Jouan's PTG, but I'd nominate their wines as across-the-board candidates for this thread. No other producer's wines remind me as much of Truchot's: light-bodied, feminine and highly perfumed.
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I am a fan. Love the Morey St. Denis and the G-C. For me, a big portion of a good Burg's appeal is in the nose, and Jouan does ring that bell hard.
 
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