1998/2000 Right Bank BDX and Graves Dinner -- 3/21/25

Yule Kim

Yule Kim
I generally preferred the 1998s over the 2000 wines (with the exception of the two Graves wines, which shouldn't count since the '98 Graves were both probably damaged). While the 1998s were generally rich and intense, they still had enough acidity to provide balance.

Somewhat surprising was that the '98 Conseillante turned out to be my WOTN -- a red-fruited, silky and graceful gem of a wine (though I think most other folks preferred either the '98 VCC, which was my second-placed wine, and the '00 La Mission, which was certainly impressive in its density, mass, and scale).

I generally was not particularly fond of the 2000s at this moment. At best, you can say they are still very far from being close to ready, though the ripeness and plumminess of the wines make me wonder whether they will ever develop complexity or finesse. Again, most of the other people at the table disagreed and were far more optimistic about their futures. I guess we should check back again in 15 years.

NV Bérêche et Fils Champagne Brut Réserve: Exactly what I expected. Slightly peachy, just a touch sweet, with richness, depth, and refreshing liveliness. A model of consistency with every bottle. One of the best entry-level champagnes on the market. From magnum.

1998 Ch“teau Les Carmes Haut-Brion: Lifted nose with some noticeable hints of VA. On the palate, it is very tangy with crunchy red fruit and edgy, jagged acidity. There is some finesse on the palate, but this seems too lifted and natty to be correct. Apparently, the cork was pretty spongy, so I'm assuming this was flawed.

2000 Ch“teau Les Carmes Haut-Brion: The palate has rich, dark berry fruit while texturally this feels slightly slick and polished. While it isn't inelegant, the weight of the wine feels a little heavy and ponderous for me (though I wouldn't call this an overly gloopy, unstructured wine either). Definitely wears the vintage on its sleeve.

1998 Ch“teau La Conseillante: This is absolutely terrific. Tobacco, green bell pepper, and some blackberry on the nose, slightly reminiscent of Cabernet Franc (though the cepage is only 20% Cab Franc with the rest Merlot). Super elegant and finessed on the palate, with silky tannins and surprisingly reddish fruit. Acidity is on point and the wine is just flat out more-ish.

2000 Ch“teau La Conseillante: Unadulterated and straightforward blackberry on the nose. Lots of blue fruit on the palate, leaning towards the plummy and simple. A little monolithic and dense at this point. Maybe this just needs more time to develop complexity, but not super interesting right now.

1998 Ch“teau Figeac: Very powerful nose of blackberry, graphite, tobacco, damp earth, and leather. While very delicate and elegant on the palate, the dark fruit was still surprisingly primary and slightly crunchy with just an undertone of smoke. Slightly rustic and lifted with a touch of grippy, drying tannins, which are more or less resolved. Pretty good, but I was expecting more. Maybe not the best bottle.

2000 Ch“teau Figeac: Quite aromatic with a pronounced green, herbal, minty thing happening on the nose. The palate has big dark fruit, some interesting smoke and tobacco notes, and a streak of green that seems really atypical for the vintage. Intriguing, but a little weird to have a wine with such ripe, dense fruit married with such pronounced pyrazine flavors and aromas.

1998 Vieux Ch“teau Certan: Very expressive nose with just a hint of brett and green pepper swirling amidst the floral and dark fruited aromas. Texturally silky and elegant, and while the crunchy red fruit is rich (and smoky), the incisive acidity provides a lively and mouth-watering tension. Super yum.

2000 Vieux Ch“teau Certan: The nose has ripe fruit and the palate is a bit heavy compared to the 1998, but there is still elegance and good acidity to keep the dark fruit on the palate from coming across as plummy. Definitely still a little closed, but I can see this being really good down the road with additional age.

1998 Ch“teau La Mission Haut-Brion: Ashy on the nose, drying, firm tannins on the palate. Slightly cooked and stewed dark, ripe, plummy fruit. Possibly heat damaged.

2000 Ch“teau La Mission Haut-Brion: The nose is a little plummy, but there are interesting tobacco and herbal notes as well. Smoky and ashy on the palate, with dark, imposing fruit and firm tannins. Definitely a bit clenched and monolithic, but if this unwinds a bit and gains a little complexity and finesse, I can see this becoming pretty impressive. But that is going to be far into the future.

2001 Ch“teau Rieussec: This is a big, big wine that punches you in the face with the intense fruit and botrytized apricot flavors. However, its lacking in acidity and comes across a little too saccharine for my tastes. The powerful nose of apricot, flowers, and honey is quite nice though. From 375.

2001 Ch“teau Suduiraut: This was quite nice. Rich, but there's good acidity to cut through the fruit and there is quite a bit of finesse as well. The botrytis provide complexity rather than overwhelm the palate. From 375.
 
cool! thanks for the script

a few small things to digest

there should be no surprise in conjunction with la conseillante outperforming anywhere

interesting that you bring up franc (in positive context with conseillante, and in a negative with figeac) but not relative to carmes hb that has a considerably higher % (varies by vintage but well over 50% on multiple occasions). was the noble grape particularly well disguised between the two examples presented?

as a side note to the above, you have me quite intrigued re what the hell happened with figeac in 2000 - sure they have 1/3 franc, mostly on gravel, and yes there was hydric stress in 2000 that would elevate the pyrazines for this specific grape/soil; yet i am not aware of this being a common symptom [ hey, anyone, how is 2000 cheval blanc??]

re 2000 in general: funny as i seem to be going though "a process" with the vintage as well. really not a fan early on, and even 5 years ago when i tasted some of the disorderly staples without much excitement and only put away a few bottles, citing lack of transparency/delineation, and not finding them particularly light on their feet. yet just in the past year a notorious triumvirate of ducru, chasse spleen, and lafite has me reconsidering - it's a bit like drinking great old classic napa from the 70s and 80s.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov: in the past year a notorious triumvirate of ducru, chasse spleen, and lafite has me reconsidering -

Pavel, good to hear you "came around" on the 2000 Clarets, including the three you mention. I feel really good about the 2000s these days.

Probably not in sync with you about the comparison to the '70s and '80s Napas although I share your high regard of them. (I'd have to think about this comparison idea.)

. . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I had the '98 Les Carmes last week - loved it - better than it's ever been and better than I ever thought it could get.

Did the '98 Carmes you had last week have any volatile acidity? I'm assuming my bottle had a faulty cork, which was why it came across as so surprisingly volatile.

I actually kind of liked the '98 Carmes, in a natural wine kind of way, but the elevated VA made me think we had a bad bottle and it wasn't completely sound.
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I had the '98 Les Carmes last week - loved it - better than it's ever been and better than I ever thought it could get.

Did the '98 Carmes you had last week have any volatile acidity? I'm assuming my bottle had a faulty cork, which was why it came across as so surprisingly volatile.

I actually kind of liked the '98 Carmes, in a natural wine kind of way, but the elevated VA made me think we had a bad bottle and it wasn't completely sound.

I don't think VA has any relationship to faulty corks. I have it on three good authorities that however much VA is present in a wine was already present when bottled.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
cool! thanks for the script

a few small things to digest

there should be no surprise in conjunction with la conseillante outperforming anywhere

interesting that you bring up franc (in positive context with conseillante, and in a negative with figeac) but not relative to carmes hb that has a considerably higher % (varies by vintage but well over 50% on multiple occasions). was the noble grape particularly well disguised between the two examples presented?

as a side note to the above, you have me quite intrigued re what the hell happened with figeac in 2000 - sure they have 1/3 franc, mostly on gravel, and yes there was hydric stress in 2000 that would elevate the pyrazines for this specific grape/soil; yet i am not aware of this being a common symptom [ hey, anyone, how is 2000 cheval blanc??]

re 2000 in general: funny as i seem to be going though "a process" with the vintage as well. really not a fan early on, and even 5 years ago when i tasted some of the disorderly staples without much excitement and only put away a few bottles, citing lack of transparency/delineation, and not finding them particularly light on their feet. yet just in the past year a notorious triumvirate of ducru, chasse spleen, and lafite has me reconsidering - it's a bit like drinking great old classic napa from the 70s and 80s.

I think the VA in the '98 Carmes kind of distracted me from any of the green notes while the '00 Carmes ripeness disguised (or at least attenuated) its green notes from being noticeable to me.

The 2000 Figeac was interesting. A friend at the dinner said a bottle of 2000 Figeac he opened last year presented differently and that our bottle was noticeably greener and the fruit less focused. I'm not sure how to explain that type of bottle variation, especially as there was nothing that would indicate that this bottle was damaged in anyway.

And interesting to hear your perspective about 2000 Bordeaux. It makes me more optimistic since you are seeing a positive trajectory in their evolution from what they were when they were younger.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Yule Kim:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I had the '98 Les Carmes last week - loved it - better than it's ever been and better than I ever thought it could get.

Did the '98 Carmes you had last week have any volatile acidity? I'm assuming my bottle had a faulty cork, which was why it came across as so surprisingly volatile.

I actually kind of liked the '98 Carmes, in a natural wine kind of way, but the elevated VA made me think we had a bad bottle and it wasn't completely sound.

I don't think VA has any relationship to faulty corks. I have it on three good authorities that however much VA is present in a wine was already present when bottled.

Doesn't faulty corks have less to do with increasing VA, but rather the oxidation interacts with the VA and makes it more noticeably volatile and vinegary on the palate?

I actually don't really know. Would be interested to hear from others if that could be what happened here.
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
I think the VA in the '98 Carmes kind of distracted me from any of the green notes while the '00 Carmes ripeness disguised (or at least attenuated) its green notes from being noticeable to me.

who said anything about green? I merely asked about cab franc. Am I on the right bored? :)
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Yule Kim:
I think the VA in the '98 Carmes kind of distracted me from any of the green notes while the '00 Carmes ripeness disguised (or at least attenuated) its green notes from being noticeable to me.

who said anything about green? I merely asked about cab franc. Am I on the right bored? :)

Sorry, I meant to say Cab Franc notes!

Though in fairness, I'm not sure whether the green from the 2000 Figeac had much to do with Cab Franc and more to do with the peculiarities of the vintage, i.e., hydric stress. I don't think I was making an explicit comparison to Cab Franc with the 2000 Figeac per se, where the green was more of a negative for me because it was heavy handed. (and don't get me wrong, the 2000 Figeac isn't a bad wine, just seemingly atypical and a little weird)

While in contrast the green in the '98 La Conseillante was more moderate, and thus a pleasing positive, which led me to make a Cab Franc comparison (even though there's not that much Cab Franc in La Conseillante).
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I had the '98 Les Carmes last week - loved it - better than it's ever been and better than I ever thought it could get.

Did the '98 Carmes you had last week have any volatile acidity? I'm assuming my bottle had a faulty cork, which was why it came across as so surprisingly volatile.

I actually kind of liked the '98 Carmes, in a natural wine kind of way, but the elevated VA made me think we had a bad bottle and it wasn't completely sound.
No VA at all - clean and pristine. Yours was definitely compromised
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Yule Kim:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I had the '98 Les Carmes last week - loved it - better than it's ever been and better than I ever thought it could get.

Did the '98 Carmes you had last week have any volatile acidity? I'm assuming my bottle had a faulty cork, which was why it came across as so surprisingly volatile.

I actually kind of liked the '98 Carmes, in a natural wine kind of way, but the elevated VA made me think we had a bad bottle and it wasn't completely sound.

I don't think VA has any relationship to faulty corks. I have it on three good authorities that however much VA is present in a wine was already present when bottled.

Doesn't faulty corks have less to do with increasing VA, but rather the oxidation interacts with the VA and makes it more noticeably volatile and vinegary on the palate?

I actually don't really know. Would be interested to hear from others if that could be what happened here.

The waning of primaries definitely makes VA more noticeable, but in this context primaries are, of course, long gone. Whether oxidation can make VA more noticeable I cannot say, but it stands to reason, since the natural path of a wine is to one day become vinegar. A faulty cork could reasonably be faulted.
 
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