Newb-alert and a call to action in IL

M

Marc Stubblefield

Marc Stubblefield
A little wary about coming out of the woodwork after the last couple days around here, but what the hell.

Longtime lurker, first time poster, yadda yadda yadda. With a purpose though - to get these stupid fucking shipping laws changed in Illinos. OK - bracing myself for whatever may come, sipping on a glass of Muscadet. So, without further ado, here's the pitch:

Those of you in IL are probably aware that last year, a law was passed that prohibited us from purchasing wine from out of state retailers (although, strangely, in state retailers can still ship out of state). A group of us have gotten together and formed an non-profit group advocating the change of this law to re-grant the right to shipping that we had for 15 years – The Illinois Wine Consumers Coalition.

We’re hoping that with enough voices, enough signatures on the petition, we can get the attention of our legislators and change this anti-consumer law.

Please visit our website at Illinois Wine Consumers Coalition and sign up, sign the petition, and most importantly, share this info with your IL wine drinking friends! As little as a few thousand names can really make our voice heard – we need your help.

Also, we should be getting some press coverage this week – so write to your editorial pages, send a letter to your representatives, and let’s get our access to fine wine back!

Let me know if you have any questions, ideas for us, or want to get more involved, or would like to donate in support of IWCC. The legal tide is turning in our favor – now is our time to make a difference!

-Marc

(Glad I waited to post until there was a preview function)
 
One possible idea:

Have you considered a masquerade party to raise money and public consciousness?

Masquerade parties are very popular here on the East Coast.
 
We did, actually. I even had my super-hero costume all picked out, but someone decided it would be too snide, and I didn't have another idea.

We're also starting a prayer circle and email chain, and I can feel it working already! Maybe we won't get the cash, but all those happy thoughts are sure to change the minds of our public servants.

-Marc
 
Marc,
As a resident of a neighboring state, I can only offer you my sympathies and encouragement. We've got a bill now in our legislature that would significantly open up our markets for out-of-state wineries, but its chances of passage are roughly those of getting a week-long heatwave in the 90s this month.

Mark Lipton
 
I'm not Mark Lipton, but I have to confess that I've become very complacent about shipping issues since I moved to a state that everyone will ship to. When I lived in a state that nobody shipped to, I was regularly up in arms about it.

For awhile I wondered about this, but after some investigation it turns out that I'm simply very self-centered.
 
The bullshit part of all this is that IL allows shipping from everyone *except* out of state retailers. Hell, I can get wine directly from any winery, drugs, guns, and ammo, but I can't order CRB from Chambers Street or K&L.

I suppose that's Illinois politics for you, though - a few million here, a few million there, and the distributors get to keep their monopoly (and their easy profits) as they move a box from one truck to the other.

-Marc
 
Hey, his name hasn't vanished!

Congratulations to Marc for beating the odds and surviving his first twenty-four hours as a n00b on Wine Disorder!

(Must be the holiday weekend...)
 
Yes, I'm relieved too. I'm afraid too many people found that the preview function wasn't all it's cracked up to be.

Congratulations, well done sir!
 
Who are the distributors making millions of dollars by blocking your purchase of Clos Roche Blanche from Chambers Street.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy it from a local source, particularly if you deduct the shipping costs from New York or San Francisco?

We have a distributor in Illinois named Maverick who does buy the Clos Roche Blanche from us. I don't think they are making millions of dollars practicing the nefarious business practices you describe.
 
To be fair, Maverick seems to play nice. I was painting with a broad brush (and hoping to bolster my first 24 hours with a CRB reference), but they are the exception rather than the rule. Folks like Southern, Glazer and Wirtz both make and dole out the cash to keep their monopoly. While not a direct analog to the shipping issue, the recent settlement with TTB by these folks is an indicator of how they operate.

I've talked to a couple of the Maverick reps at my local, small retailers, and I have a great deal of respect for them, their portfolio, and how they operate.

On the other hand, if the big guy's reps can talk about OMG teenagers will order Ogier Cote Rotie and get hammered, pregnant, drive drunk and run over WWII veterans, I figure I can hyperbolize a touch myself, in service of rhetoric.

-Marc

(*TWICE* with the preview function!)
 
Do you work in the wine trade? Are you just an interested consumer?

Ogier is distributed around the national by Charmer Industries. That shouldn't be a problem finding around the countries.
 
I would say a passionate consumer, with no connection whatsoever to the trade. And while I could pick nits about which, in particular, bottles are or are not available to me, today, at this moment, I won't. I could send a list, but at the end of the day, it's about the principle of the thing.

Why *can't* I order from Chambers Street if I want to? What if they are the sole importer of a few cases of something I want to try? What argument is there for the 3 tier distribution model in todays world that is any way beneficial for the consumer?

There is a (large) place for the national/local distributors in the market, but it is unfair that they are the only option. Clearly the regulatory hurdles have been overcome, if I can recieve shipments from out of state wineries and in state retailers - taxes paid, ages verified. I don't want the end of Southern, I just am advocating for free interstate commerce.

But you knew that.

-Marc
 
The three tier system is not synonymous with the refusal of certain states to allow shipments from out-of-state.

Furthermore, I would suggest that it is not really difficult to live in the state of Illinois and buy whatever you like from out-of-state retailers.

I certainly agree that there should not be any laws that make it difficult to buy anything from anyone, including marijuana. I also think the drinking age ought to be 18.

None of this has anything to do with the three-tier system. Wine is not the only industry with local distributors. I am all for local distributors because that is the only way to get the wine out locally. I am also for local retailers and local restaurants. How else are they going to get the wine.

I am against forced state regulations that make wine purchasing difficult (but again, dooable). But all the hyperbole in your messages is just nonsense -- who is making millions of dollars. Be concrete. Millions of dollars are not being made on niche wines.

Thank you for the masquerade ball.
 
The problem is related to the three tier system and the profits generated by the system. Wholesalers and distributors are putting lots of money into the hands of lobbyists to influence (some would say bribe) state legislatures to keep these laws on the books. It has been very difficult for consumer groups to keep up this level of spending for lobbyists.

While your point is well taken that no one is making millions from niche, that isn't the motivation of the distributors/wholesalers. Their attitude is the O.J. Simpson approach of "I don't want her but you can't have her either." The big boys clearly don't want to represent these wines but they don't want any other entity selling the wines into their markets even though the dollars aren't large. Or perhaps it is just a power thing of not wanting to give up anything that they currently have. Whatever their motivation there is no denying the role that distributing/wholesale sector has had in fighting tooth and nail to prevent legislation and fight judicial cases to limit sales of wine.

This isn't a problem in New York, but there are lots of other markets that can't get the wines that they would like to drink at any price and others where the wines are allocated and when available at a much higher price. For example, the 2001 and 2002 Gang of Four beaujolais were very difficult to find at any Atlanta wine store. If you could find them, prices were $32 to 34 per bottle vs. NYC prices of $20.

Good luck, Marc.

Bill Bounds
 
The problem is not the three tiers per se. The problem is the state laws that absolutely forbid the consumer to skip a tier or two at any time for any reason. Whether this really restricts the consumer is not the point; it gives that appearance, and many Americans dislike being told what they may or may not do.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
The three tier system is not synonymous with the refusal of certain states to allow shipments from out-of-state.
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True, but that's not the point here. What is the point is that the distributors have a vested interest in anti-consumer laws which protect their monopoly.
Furthermore, I would suggest that it is not really difficult to live in the state of Illinois and buy whatever you like from out-of-state retailers.
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It is, if you choose, or the retailers choose, to abide by the law.
None of this has anything to do with the three-tier system. Wine is not the only industry with local distributors.
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But it *is* the only industry where I am legally barred from choosing where to do my business, whether through a local retailer, or an internet e-tailer, or a brick and mortar store in California.
I am all for local distributors because that is the only way to get the wine out locally. I am also for local retailers and local restaurants. How else are they going to get the wine.
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I agree that there is a place for local distributors. They serve a purpose for local retail outlets, restaraunts, 7-11's and wherever else you can purchase wine. They provide a conduit for wines from all over the world. Shouldn't I also have access to *your* local distributors, who may have a differnt palate and portfolio than mine? Maybe I can only get spoof, or slurpable wines here in IL.
But all the hyperbole in your messages is just nonsense -- who is making millions of dollars. Be concrete. Millions of dollars are not being made on niche wines.
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I admit I implied a niche wine issue with the CRB comment, and no, millions are not being made on niche wines. Millions are being made on *every* *single* *bottle* of alcohol that must pass through their monopoly. Every critter labled bottle. Every bottle of Ghost horse. All of them, without exception. If there are not millions being made, how can IL distributors afford to have given $3.5 million in political contributions in just the last five years?

What argument can you make that supports the funding and lobbying that the distributors have mustered to support this law that does not end up with legislating their profit margin?

And your welcome for the ball. It was lovely!

-Marc
 
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