Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
2009 Faurie Hermitage Bessards/Meal still on the purple-fruity side tonight
The Rule of 15 Validated
- Thread starter MLipton
- Start date
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
If the rule pertains to fortnights, I've got a great bottle of G. D. Vajra 2024 Vino Rosato "rosa bella" (12%) here that says I'm on a shaded porch overlooking Lake Como. Aah.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
Oy, now we not only have to define "closed" but also "rustic."
robert ames
robert ames
is there a rule of 30? i'm enjoying a merkelbach urziger wurzgarten kabinett 1995 (ex-cave) with summer succotash and everything is fantastic. they're practically marching down the aisle together to James brown belting out "I've got you!".
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
"Rustic" refers to the qualities of the tannin and fruit. You've been around long enough that if you can't recognize it now, you never will.
Tristan Welles
Tristan Welles
Good to know, among the very last bottles of wine I bought to cellar.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
I recognize it, even write it in my tasting notes sometimes. But is what I call "rustic" the same thing you, or Rahsaan, or Jeff, or X calls "rustic." I suspect there'd be some overlap, but unsure how much.
It would actually be a fun blind tasting to have everyone bring a bottle they'd call "closed" and a bottle they'd call "rustic", and see how much agreement there was. With the caveat that individual bottles of wine don't always cooperate with their expected showing.
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
It was drinking well!
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
Your own subjective view poking through here? Lack of a certain rusticity is one of the tragedies of many modern red wines IMO.
Pavel Tchichikov
Pavel Tchichikov
I wholeheartedly support this message, except not so much in Roumier's case. My sample set in the past six months consists of 2001 Bonnes-Mares, 2001 Les Cras, 1998 Ruchottes, 1998 Les Amoureuses, and 1993 Charmes. I have no recent experience with anything post-2002, but have tasted the wines in the past and in many cases form barrel. I think we can safely assume Christophe's changes have not led to modernity, at least not in the sense that I know you are implying. On top of that, while I have a great deal of respect for each of the five bottles I've mentioned, I can see how your average disorderly and non-disorderly Burgundy lover would welcome a slightly less austere style that emerged at the Domaine over time. Wait, I did say austere, not rustic. Never mind, handing the mike back to Christian then.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Disagree - there are enough bona fide country wines out there to quench any thirst one might have for rustic wines that we don't need to waste terroir in the heart of the Cote d'Or on that project. Burgundy should almost always be an elegant wine, and when not elegant, at least regal rather than rustic.
I don't have a ton of Roumier under my belt but I don't think I've ever had a Bussiere that wasn't rustic, and also don't think I've ever had one I enjoyed. I don't know why.
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
Nah. I’m always right, mon ami.
Added: what I meant is the general proposition that rusticity as a good quality IMO has trended away. Whereas specific to Roumier / Bussiere, it’s true the wines often remained hard and tannic for too long.
I’d characterize rusticity as a potentially correlated, but not coextensive property to fiercely tannic.
Alright, back to the cave.
Pavel Tchichikov
Pavel Tchichikov
which edition of which cote d'or map have you purchased? the rust belt is clearly marked spanning most of savigny, much of aloxe and ladoix, and parts of pernand. the publishers who naively included nuits in certain editions have been dealt with and are no longer in business.
the wines in the belt are distinguished texturally and gastronomically which in no way gets in the way of their being elegant.
what teh dot said. plus various other climats in other terroirs, of which teh bussiere has always been a bona fide gimme. like, even as far back as 79 (my own range for teh line up), across a whole bunch of hooch made in much teh same way, teh bussiere was always rustic.
we can quibble about sows ears and silk purses, but i'd wager that there are bits of chassgane and santenay better disposed to teh latter.
fb.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
To a large (not total) extent I agree when it comes to Cote d'Or wines. But when it comes to the rustic vector of oxygen exposure, over the last few years, across many wines, I've found myself thinking "I wish they'd racked or splashed or beaten this wine up a bit in some way." I am wondering if many cases modern clean anti-oxidative winemaking keeps the fruit primary and undeveloped, and smothers complexity, a bit too much in the quest for stability and ageability. That's a fine approach for wines that deserve or need cellaring, but not so much for wines I want to drink 1-3 years after release.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Oh, I am definitely a fan of the Heredia philosophy of "keep on racking this thing until it tastes like wine" as opposed to "capture the fruit." But I don't associate that with rusticity over elegance - quite the opposite!
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
That's one of the marvels of Lopez de Heredia - best of both worlds, you could say. But back to rustic, the contrast driving my pro-oxygen remark was between some inexpensive, rustic but enjoyable co-op wines from corners of Spain, France or Portugal and some much pricier, ambitious low/no oak, reductive, fruit-driven wines that came across as taut and maybe "better balanced," but also primary, simple and austere.
It seems to me that the idea that the long closed phase is no longer in any way to be taken for granted is exactly right. Roumier's wines at whatever level may be a notable exception, however; even if there are more biddable vintages such as 07 and 13 they still seem to be outliers. The wines of Lafarge seem to be much more approachable in mid-life than they once were