What a crazy world - Clos Rougeard prices

[Jayson Cohen]

originally posted by Zachary Ross:
The magnitude of the opportunity cost matters. A few hundred dollars won't change my life; $300,000 would.

This. Keith, are you offering $300K for each of my remaining bottles of Verset? I'll take it!

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

I don’t often agree with Keith, but people are avoiding his point. One could argue that his hypothetical is a reductio ad absurdam, but so was Shaw’s notorious joke at a dinner party about prostitution. He had a point nevertheless.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

originally posted by robert ames:
look at it this way: take the 1999 verset cornas. if you came up on a bottle for $75 (a feeble stab at actual retail adjusted for inflation) today, you'd grab it in a second, hardly believing your luck, and drink it.

so why let "market value" dissuade you from drinking it now? (unless you're broke and need the money).

Because ignoring opportunity cost doesn't make it go away?

Zachys just sold some 19th century Lafite magnums for like $300k a bottle. If you came by a bottle for $75 would you drink it or trade it for $300k?

the order of magnitude in the situation here is too great to make it relevant.

 

[Brian C]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

originally posted by robert ames:
look at it this way: take the 1999 verset cornas. if you came up on a bottle for $75 (a feeble stab at actual retail adjusted for inflation) today, you'd grab it in a second, hardly believing your luck, and drink it.

so why let "market value" dissuade you from drinking it now? (unless you're broke and need the money).

Because ignoring opportunity cost doesn't make it go away?

Zachys just sold some 19th century Lafite magnums for like $300k a bottle. If you came by a bottle for $75 would you drink it or trade it for $300k?

the order of magnitude in the situation here is too great to make it relevant.

If $800+ opportunity cost per bottle doesn’t at least give you pause, then you’re operating with a different wine budget that me.

 

[Cole Kendall]

originally posted by Brian C:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

originally posted by robert ames:
look at it this way: take the 1999 verset cornas. if you came up on a bottle for $75 (a feeble stab at actual retail adjusted for inflation) today, you'd grab it in a second, hardly believing your luck, and drink it.

so why let "market value" dissuade you from drinking it now? (unless you're broke and need the money).

Because ignoring opportunity cost doesn't make it go away?

Zachys just sold some 19th century Lafite magnums for like $300k a bottle. If you came by a bottle for $75 would you drink it or trade it for $300k?

the order of magnitude in the situation here is too great to make it relevant.

If $800+ opportunity cost per bottle doesn’t at least give you pause, then you’re operating with a different wine budget that me.

For me selling a bottle or two at $800 doesn't really move the needle, in the sense that selling is not like someone comes to your door and gives you $800. There's a whole process with finding someone to arrange a sale (the guys I sold bottles with a few years ago might not be as relevant in the market today), waiting for auction results, getting a fraction (minus packaging, shipping cost, premiums and other fees) of what's left etc. etc. For a case, sure, but for a bottle or two I'll drink it.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Brian C:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

originally posted by robert ames:
look at it this way: take the 1999 verset cornas. if you came up on a bottle for $75 (a feeble stab at actual retail adjusted for inflation) today, you'd grab it in a second, hardly believing your luck, and drink it.

so why let "market value" dissuade you from drinking it now? (unless you're broke and need the money).

Because ignoring opportunity cost doesn't make it go away?

Zachys just sold some 19th century Lafite magnums for like $300k a bottle. If you came by a bottle for $75 would you drink it or trade it for $300k?

the order of magnitude in the situation here is too great to make it relevant.

If $800+ opportunity cost per bottle doesn’t at least give you pause, then you’re operating with a different wine budget that me.

if you don't see a difference between $800 and $300,000 I withdraw my argument.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

To repeat myself, reductio ad absurdam arguments do make a point. Sure, there is a significant difference between $800 and 300k, but his larger claim now amounts to saying $800 isn’t enough of an opportunity cost for him to sell a Verset, whereas it might reasonably be for someone else and some amount between $800 and 300k might be for him. In other words, his statement is a personal comment and not a position about selling wine for profit. Of course, personal comments are what one does on wine boreds.

 

[Cole Kendall]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
To repeat myself, reductio ad absurdam arguments do make a point. Sure, there is a significant difference between $800 and 300k, but his larger claim now amounts to saying $800 isn’t enough of an opportunity cost for him to sell a Verset, whereas it might reasonably be for someone else and some amount between $800 and 300k might be for him. In other words, his statement is a personal comment and not a position about selling wine for profit. Of course, personal comments are what one does on wine boreds.

ad absurdum, please. $300K obviously moves my decision (not sure if I was the one referred to above) but $800 minus breakage and cash in hand months from now for two bottles means I'd rather drink them (not Verset, sadly, but wine that has risen sharply in value from what I've paid) on my birthday with friends.

 

[Keith Levenberg]

Cole's friction point is valid of course, but as for the rest of you who wouldn't sell one for $800 because it's not enough money to matter, I trust you'd also buy one for $800, because it's not enough money to matter.

 

[georg lauer]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Cole's friction point is valid of course, but as for the rest of you who wouldn't sell one for $800 because it's not enough money to matter, I trust you'd also buy one for $800, because it's not enough money to matter.

Seems an odd dead horse to beat. That Nobel Prize was awarded in 2017.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Cole's friction point is valid of course, but as for the rest of you who wouldn't sell one for $800 because it's not enough money to matter, I trust you'd also buy one for $800, because it's not enough money to matter.

Well, there went our short-lived agreement. I don't even think this is an example of the 2017 Nobel winning economic theory on the limited rationality of actual decision making. There is a rational difference between not taking a profit rather than drinking a wine that has increased in value (one bought the wine to drink it; it's increased value may overcome that motive, but if it always did, one would never have aged wine to drink) and spending current money on the wine. It may not be rational in terms of what the Victorians called homo economicus, but economic value isn't the only kind there is.

By the way, I have the base level Rougeard from 04 and 06. I would guess the bottles I have left have increased significantly in value since I bought them as new releases for $40. I have no intention of selling them, since I would rather drink them as I will likely not drink another Rougeard after they are gone. And I don't have Cole's irritations with the process of selling. The couple of times I have done it (through Commerce Corner on Berserkers), it has been relatively painless. The only wines I have sold have been ones that either Gail, I or both of us have no interest in drinking, for one reason or another.

 

[Jayson Cohen]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Cole's friction point is valid of course, but as for the rest of you who wouldn't sell one for $800 because it's not enough money to matter, I trust you'd also buy one for $800, because it's not enough money to matter.

Keith, you’re kidding, right? It doesn’t take a Nobel Prize to understand the fallacies with this argument (or your last). You should come to NY so we can share a bottle I would never buy at current pricing but would not sell either. In fact, I opened one last time I saw you here and in DC last fall as well.