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Selvapiana?
- Thread starter MLipton
- Start date
robert ames
robert ames
not sure how tanzer's recommendations sit with you, but i believe that he has stated that selvapiana is the best producer in rufina.
Arnt Egil Nordlien
Arnt Egil Nordlien
I don't know exactly what info you are looking for. Selvapiana's normal Rufina was a wine I drank a lot of up to 2001. There were a slight shakey period after that (poor vintages too). Someone told me that they are now back at old heights, but I have not tasted any recent vintages.
The style of Selvapiana is (in reference to that we still are in Tuscany) a little more old-fashioned than the norm of the region. Wines are highly Rufina-like, with less obvious fruit-notes and cooler styled than those from Classico. The normale can be a delight with cool sangiovese-notes. The riservas gets some barrique and ages very well. And they need a long time. I had several bottles of the '80 Riserva and the last bottle 1,5 years ago was clearly the best. I recently had a bottle of their top wine; the riserva Bucerchiale in 82-vintage and it was at peak, almost a little young.
If you are interested I would recommend trying simply the Rufina normale first. It is a cheap wine and tells a lot about the style of this producer and is meant to be drunk young. I hear great things about the '06 that should be available now, but I have not tasted it.
The style of Selvapiana is (in reference to that we still are in Tuscany) a little more old-fashioned than the norm of the region. Wines are highly Rufina-like, with less obvious fruit-notes and cooler styled than those from Classico. The normale can be a delight with cool sangiovese-notes. The riservas gets some barrique and ages very well. And they need a long time. I had several bottles of the '80 Riserva and the last bottle 1,5 years ago was clearly the best. I recently had a bottle of their top wine; the riserva Bucerchiale in 82-vintage and it was at peak, almost a little young.
If you are interested I would recommend trying simply the Rufina normale first. It is a cheap wine and tells a lot about the style of this producer and is meant to be drunk young. I hear great things about the '06 that should be available now, but I have not tasted it.
originally posted by Arnt Egil Nordlien:
I don't know exactly what info you are looking for. Selvapiana's normal Rufina was a wine I drank a lot of up to 2001. There were a slight shakey period after that (poor vintages too). Someone told me that they are now back at old heights, but I have not tasted any recent vintages.
The style of Selvapiana is (in reference to that we still are in Tuscany) a little more old-fashioned than the norm of the region. Wines are highly Rufina-like, with less obvious fruit-notes and cooler styled than those from Classico. The normale can be a delight with cool sangiovese-notes. The riservas gets some barrique and ages very well. And they need a long time. I had several bottles of the '80 Riserva and the last bottle 1,5 years ago was clearly the best. I recently had a bottle of their top wine; the riserva Bucerchiale in 82-vintage and it was at peak, almost a little young.
If you are interested I would recommend trying simply the Rufina normale first. It is a cheap wine and tells a lot about the style of this producer and is meant to be drunk young. I hear great things about the '06 that should be available now, but I have not tasted it.
Many thanks, Egil. Currently, the '04 Riserva Bucerchiale is on offer locally, but the barrique treatment does give me cause for concern. And Tanzer's (and Galloni's) recommendations mean far less to me than what you have written.
Mark Lipton
A. Fenster
Albert Fenster
Had my last bottle of the 90 Bucerchiale within the last year and it was quite youthful. Quite dark colored but good fruit and balance.
originally posted by Asher:
I tried the first of a six pack of the '04 Riserva Bucerchiale over the summer. It's a good wine. There is some oak, but it doesn't concern me. I plan on putting the other five bottles into the back of the cellar for 5-10 years, and I expect it to be terrific then.
Thanks a lot, Asher and Al. Sounds like it wouldn't be a horrible mistake to spring for some.
Mark Lipton
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
With my Grandma being the nanny of the current owner (Francesco Giuntini Antinori), I spent most of my summers at the estate in the 80s and I am told there is still a graffiti at the kitchen entrance that I did when I was 5. So it goes without saying that that my view is biased.
Selvapiana ranks high up with the best Chianti producers. Up till the mid 90s they never intened their wines for drinking right at release (see below). This is especially true for the Riserve Bucherchiale, that comes from a very steep parcel and from old vines (50+ years). The Bucerchiale selection does not go into barriques despite what you can read even on their website (where actually they say that it goes both in barriques and middle sized foudre). Moreover the maceration on this wine is old style Barolo like, i.e. 20+ days with no temperature control. The estate became famous with the much warmer than average 1990 vintage in which Bucerchiale was more approachable than ever before (I have a lot '61 and '47 at home and they are still going) and therefore made it to the Wine Spectator Top Ten.
To further increase the footprint of the Estate in the US they decided to go IGT with the Fornace bottling more akin to a international styled wines. I was told that they had to do this despite being contrary to their philosophy. I have been pushing ever since to have this bottling removed. It makes no sense.
Finally there have been some problems in the cellar unfortunately coinciding with the exceptional 2001 vintage. However nature proved extremely generous with Tuscany with the 2004 and 2006 vintages.
Thanks for listening
FiloBianco
PS Try the olive oil if you can. It tastes more like a Liguria/Lombardy olive oil while I believe most of oils from Tuscany they taste more and more like Sicilian oils...
Selvapiana ranks high up with the best Chianti producers. Up till the mid 90s they never intened their wines for drinking right at release (see below). This is especially true for the Riserve Bucherchiale, that comes from a very steep parcel and from old vines (50+ years). The Bucerchiale selection does not go into barriques despite what you can read even on their website (where actually they say that it goes both in barriques and middle sized foudre). Moreover the maceration on this wine is old style Barolo like, i.e. 20+ days with no temperature control. The estate became famous with the much warmer than average 1990 vintage in which Bucerchiale was more approachable than ever before (I have a lot '61 and '47 at home and they are still going) and therefore made it to the Wine Spectator Top Ten.
To further increase the footprint of the Estate in the US they decided to go IGT with the Fornace bottling more akin to a international styled wines. I was told that they had to do this despite being contrary to their philosophy. I have been pushing ever since to have this bottling removed. It makes no sense.
Finally there have been some problems in the cellar unfortunately coinciding with the exceptional 2001 vintage. However nature proved extremely generous with Tuscany with the 2004 and 2006 vintages.
Thanks for listening
FiloBianco
PS Try the olive oil if you can. It tastes more like a Liguria/Lombardy olive oil while I believe most of oils from Tuscany they taste more and more like Sicilian oils...
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
Thanks for listening
FiloBianco
PS Try the olive oil if you can. It tastes more like a Liguria/Lombardy olive oil while I believe most of oils from Tuscany they taste more and more like Sicilian oils...
Thanks for the wonderful advice, Filipppo. I had no idea of the personal connection you possessed to the estate and greatly appreciate your insight, especially about the "barrique" aging of the Riserva Bucerchiale. I think that I'll have to go there to try to the olive oil. (FWIW, a Venetian friend of mine claims that Spanish olive oils now make most Italian olive oils look bad. De gustibus...)
Mark Lipton
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Sir Lipton, a very close friend of mine dealing in a lot of oil out of Puglia claims after Italy comes Spain as far as olive oil... No doubt many Spanish olive oils are superior to their Italian counterparties...
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
The Bucerchiale selection does not go into barriques despite what you can read even on their website (where actually they say that it goes both in barriques and middle sized foudre).
Finally there have been some problems in the cellar unfortunately coinciding with the exceptional 2001 vintage. However nature proved extremely generous with Tuscany with the 2004 and 2006 vintages.
Thanks very much for your contribution, including the personal history. Your post, however, begs some questions:
1. You're saying that despite what the winery states on its website about the Bucerchiale seeing barrique and middle aged foudre, that is not the case. Could you elaborate? Why would the winery publicly state one thing, when it's not the case?
2. What were the problems in the cellar, and were they limited to the 2001 vintage only?
Thanks again for the helpful information.
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
The Website has not been updated in a while. It has the 1999 vintage on it! I never asked the question but my educated guess that back than (2000/2001) Barrique was still in fashion in Italy (now it is clearly not). Moreover from personal experience (and from friends experience) I cannot recall any new oak on the wine. Everyone reports it is rather aggressive in its (non oak) tannins and takes time to be approachable (less in a warmer vintage). Moreover I am having a hard time to think altogether of a wine that's split part in barrique part in botti grandi and then blended in steel. This may be true for the Fornace but I never cared much about the wine to learn the vinification process. Anyway I will double check and get back at some stage.
As far as the 2001 vintage was concerned the wine did not come out clean with a lot of VA, my suspect something went wrong in the making. It also happened at Roumier, it can certainly happen there!
As far as the 2001 vintage was concerned the wine did not come out clean with a lot of VA, my suspect something went wrong in the making. It also happened at Roumier, it can certainly happen there!
Oliver McCrum
Oliver McCrum
Many years ago I asked Piero Antinori if there were other* appellations of Chianti that he liked, and he mentioned Rufina, and Selvapiana in particular.
* non-Classico
* non-Classico
U
Unknown
Guest
Filippo,originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
With my Grandma being the nanny of the current owner (Francesco Giuntini Antinori), I spent most of my summers at the estate in the 80s and I am told there is still a graffiti at the kitchen entrance that I did when I was 5. So it goes without saying that that my view is biased.
PS Try the olive oil if you can. It tastes more like a Liguria/Lombardy olive oil while I believe most of oils from Tuscany they taste more and more like Sicilian oils...
what a great place to spend your childhood. My experience with the wines of Selvapiana is far too limited to form an opinion but the few tasted have all been convincing and high quality. Is Franco Bernabei still on board?
I would however disagree that tuscan olive oil tastes like sicilian, at least at "real" extra vergine level. Nocellara di Belice or Tonda Iblea are far more intense than the classic tuscan varieties such as Leccino, Moraiolo, Pendolino et al. But of course, a typical and again "real" tuscan extra vergine olive oil is mostly very expressive or even aromatically dominant.
I still have to taste a ligurian olive oil that is on the level of its reputation. So far, every single one has been shown defects either on production level (riscaldo) or after bottling (rancio).
re spanish oil: I have tasted spanish oil that was fantastic from Penedes. Production costs 2/100kg. In tuscany production costs in a more or less efficient frantoio are 2/1kg...go figure.
Still, this hardly will change business figures in the near future, as consumer knowledge and education as well as quality controls are on a level of where wine was 25 years ago...