NWR: Beethoven Recordings

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Ian Fitzsimmons

Ian Fitzsimmons
Looking for two kinds of recordings: (1) the late quartets; (2) a good general collection. Thought some of the discerning minds here might have views. Please, no live concert-recording quarrels.

Thanks.
 
The Italian Quartet on Philips is a classic set. It was recorded in the late '60s and has been available ever since. Polished, understated playing IMO, but some find it too cool. The Busch Quartet's recordings (EMI, 1930s IIRC but available on CD) are excellent and aren't so understated so if you prefer that style and don't mind less than perfect sound this is the ideal set.

A general collection of Beethoven? How many CDs would this be? And are you looking for chamber works or orchestral as well?
 
I haven't listened to any recent sets, but there are many fine recordings. The Busch (as noted by Otto) and Budapest recordings are well-thought of but I prefer better sound quality. The two groups that I go back to a lot are the Smetana and the Yale.

I'll have to pull out the lps for the Italian set and give them a spin.
 
Thanks Otto and Dan.

Otto, I'm in the market for a full set of the late string quartets, and a decent but not comprehensive collection of his other work, with emphasis on orchestral and piano, over chamber. I'm not ready spend to big dollars on a reference set. On the other hand, if there's a really terrific collection and it is better to wait and save up for it, by all means, tell me. Thanks again.

I guess, like wine, in the long run I should sample and develop my own tastes in performance, but a little guidance at the outset can be a big help.
 
I love the late Beethoven quartets and I have the Guarneri set on RCA Victor.

Recently I have started to appreciate the Middle Quartets and I bought the Orion Quartet version after hearing them on the radio.

If you like Beethoven quartets you are very likely to enjoy Schubert's as well, and the Emerson does a good job.

One of my favorites by Schubert is the Piano Quintet which has a soaring melodic line that can just be heartbreaking if played with enough feeling.

F
 
For me, if there is a single Beethoven recording not to be missed, it is the Carlos Kleiber Symphonies No. 5 and 7 on DG. Other conductors that I favor for Beethoven's symphonies are Furtwngler and Klemperer. For a modern recording on original instruments, the Gardiner set is said by sources I trust to be superb. (Ironically, we have the set, I just haven't had the time to sit down and listen to it -- too much time spent with those junk guys Parker, Young, Coltrane, Davis, etc.)

For the quartets, as noted above Busch and Budapest were the standards for much of the 20th century, but note that Budapest, at least, recorded the cycle multiple times and there are arguments about which is best. More recently, Emerson is highly regarded -- I like their work in general, but have not heard their Beethoven recording. Quartetto Italiano is first rate and available at a very attractive price (or at least it was a few years ago) for the entire quartet recordings. More recently, the Lindsays and Tackcs are outstanding/incredible, and each has performed among the greatest concert versions of Beethoven's music that I've attended. (Lindsays have two separate cycles recorded.)

For some especially beautiful Beethoven music that is often overlooked, check out the works for cello and piano. There is a bargain-priced Rostropovich-Richter version that I love. More recently, I've acquired the Meneses-Pressler recording and it, too, is quite wonderful. Then there is the Casals-Serkin recording of Sonatas 3-4-5, perhaps somewhat rustic to our ears today, but quite impressive nonetheless from two of the 20th century's great musicians.
 
I would add some off-beat (down-beat?) recommendations:

For the string quartets, the Borodin has produced several superb recordings but unfortunately a full set if not available right now. Virgin Classics (is that an oxymoron?) has an inexpensive 4 CD version with selections from the early, middle and late quartets. The recording of the 3rd Razumovsky Quartet (Op 59 #3) is great. If you decide to get the Budapest, I personally prefer theie recordings from the early 50's with Jac Gorodetzky as 2nd violinist.

I would second Claude's idea of looking at the Beethoven Cello-Piano sonatas. I am currently listening to Zara Nelsova on a Decca release. Despite her name, Zara was a Canadian cellist who performed and taught from the 30's until 2002 and was every bit the equal of her male counterparts. [Well, with the possible exception of Feuermann.] You can hear her performance of the 3rd CP on a youtube video.

As for a selection of other works, Beethoven pushed and expanded the boundaries of so many classical forms I find it hard to suggest a restricted set. There are 2 unusual but superb and inexpensive performances of the 3rd and 5th Piano Concerti with Benno Moiseiwitsch, though the 5th was recorded shortly before he died and as a result is a little less precise than it might otherwise have been.

Finally, everyone is "supposed" to have the 9th Symphony in his collection. I am a fan of Groucho Marx's aphorism: "If everyone is for it, I must be against it." That said, lately I've been listening to an older recording with Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Surprising good, though the transfer to CD is not first rate. There are some hair-raising moments in the Scherzo where Reiner's and the CSO's energy come shooting through the speakers; balance this effect with the great lyricism of the Andante and the enormous feeling and dynamics of the Finale and you have a great performance.
 
Wow, great suggestions. Pehaps one of you would be willing to assign points to the different recordings so I know what to buy. I presume the Budapest recordings should be 90-95, at least. Perhaps we could have an off-line and do some blind listening, you know, a Beethoven orchestra shoot-out. I really need to know which is the best!

Just kidding. Seriously, thanks to each for taking the time. I'm looking forward to wading into this material and enjoying it. I have drunk the Beethoven kool-aid.
 
I don't of a single collection with great performances but there are lots of good recommendations above for single pieces - especially the Kleiber set of Symphonies 5 & 7 that Claude mentions. And get anything by Furtwngler as he was perhaps the greatest conductor to have recorded. He builds up tensions so well that one is always sitting on the edge of one's seat when listening to anything by him. He is such a great conductor that he even manages to make his own mediocre compositions sound like masterpieces.

For the cello pieces, I would rather go with Pierre Fournier (both sets, with Gulda and Kempff on the piano, are great) though Nelsova and Rostropovich are good, too. For the violin sonatas: Busch again is wonderful, but Grumiaux and the incomparable pianist Clara Haskil is a must own set.

Since you like the late quartets, you must get the late piano sonatas. My preferred set is the one from the '50s by the British pianist, Solomon (EMI). His full name was Solomon Cutner but he used only his first name for some reason. Solomon's Hammerklavier is one of my favourite Beethoven recordings. Also get Solomon's recordings of the Piano Concertos. Though from the late '40s-mid '50s the sound on the remastered CDs are excellent IMO and no excuses need to be made because of their age.

Klemperer's Fidelio is considered a legendary recording and does indeed have a superb cast. I am in love with Sena Jurinac and there are IIRC a couple live recordings of her but the overall casting isn't as great as with Klemperer's. For Lieder the obvious answer might be Fischer-Dieskau, but I actually prefer the Frenchman Grard Souzay.
 
I like the monumentalism of Klemperer in the 3rd & 5th symphonies, and the 1977 Karajan 9th is probably the best Beethoven record he made (or at least the last great one).
Nearly any Beethoven played by Emil Gilels is pretty special too.
Graeme
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

NWR: Beethoven RecordingsLooking for two kinds of recordings: (1) the late quartets; (2) a good general collection. Thought some of the discerning minds here might have views. Please, no live concert-recording quarrels.

Thanks.
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To answer the first part, I agree with everyone here about getting the ole Busch Quartet recordings, but then, the latest remastering (EMI Great Recordings of the Century) sounds, once again, badly overprocessed. I'd probably go for the earlier EMI edition (Pearl used an excessive amount of reverb, and Dutton, which I haven't heard, uses the CEDAR software - never bodes well for natural sound quality).

As to a general collection (it seems as if alarm bells start ringing in my head each time I hear the term), I assume you were asking about the String Quartets (and not Beethoven in general - he's my favourite composer and serveral hundred records spring to mind immediately, I wouldn't know where to begin)? Modern complete editions of the String Quartets (all in good sound) such as by the Alban Berg Quartet (EMI - a modern classic, now available in an affordable boxed set), Emerson String Quartet (DG), Leipziger Streichquartett (MDG), and Takcs Quartet (Decca) all have their strengths. I'm afraid the Budapest String Quartet's Library of Congress live recordings are a bit expensive to recommend as a starting point (and at any rate, it's debatable as to which of their cycles would be the one to get - it costs a lot of money, but will provide a lifetime of enjoyment comparing them all).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
David: Many thanks. I've been enjoying your wine notes for several years in different fora. Your Riesling tastings are an annual highlight.

How extremely kind of so many of you to make suggestions. Not much love (in the symphonies) for Karajan or Bernstein, I see, who I thought were big names.

Now the difficult budget decision: Beethoven or Burgundy? Perhaps a bit of each!
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Wow, great suggestions. Pehaps one of you would be willing to assign points to the different recordings so I know what to buy. I presume the Budapest recordings should be 90-95, at least.
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Check out jazz.com where leading critics rate particular performances on a 100-point scale.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Not much love (in the symphonies) for Karajan or Bernstein, I see, who I thought were big names.
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Karajan can be great. Not as exciting and without as tense phrasing as Furtwngler, but still great. I am a fan of many of his recordings and performances though in his later years he did become a bit rigid at times, so try to get the performances from the late '40s-'60s if possible. Even though I didn't mention him, I do think he is a very good conductor, so if you like him generally then don't hesitate to buy his Beethoven.

Bernstein is more hit and miss for me. I think Bernstein's biggest problem was that he too often wore his heart on his sleeve: it can sound like his performances were soaked in honey. In other times (I remember a live recording of the Brahms 4th symphony (from the mid-'70s IIRC) especially fondly) they can be wonderful. But for me it is a fine line between expressiveness and kitsch and too often Bernstein crosses the line into kitsch. I simply like more restrained performances - especially in recordings because such overt performances as Bernstein's often don't stand up well to repeated listening.

And since you were looking for the piano works: Wilhelm Backhaus. He had a long recording career (1908 to the '60s) and just as with the Italian Quartet, sometimes his playing is criticized as too cold, but I think it is wonderful and stands up to repeated listening well.
 
you ... may ... like ... von ... Karajan ... if ... you ... like ... to .. . take ... things ... very ... very ... slow ... ly.

I never thought that was how Beethoven intended it to be played and most modern conductors use a much livelier tempo.

With earlier Karajan there is the mental stumbling block of those "Nazis coughing in the audience"

F
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Frank Deis:

With earlier Karajan there is the mental stumbling block of those "Nazis coughing in the audience"

F
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As well as on the podium.
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Don't be so harsh! He only signed up with the party twice or thrice after all! ;^)

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

David: Many thanks. I've been enjoying your wine notes for several years in different fora. Your Riesling tastings are an annual highlight.

How extremely kind of so many of you to make suggestions. Not much love (in the symphonies) for Karajan or Bernstein, I see, who I thought were big names.

Now the difficult budget decision: Beethoven or Burgundy? Perhaps a bit of each!
Click to expand...

You're welcome! As to the second paragraph, I wasn't aware you were asking about anything other than the String Quartets. With Beethoven's symphonic output we'd, um, well, be entering a zone where I've owned, compared etc. hundreds of recordings, so that I wonder whether I should even begin to tell you about my findings (especially since they're no more than that: mine). Let me just concentrate on complete cycles: there is none I would want to live with exclusively. Most complete cycles include at least one major dud, usually several, and several of those conductors (Kleiber son didn't even come close, regarding Hermann Scherchen I'm not quite sure) who could have achieved that artistic hat-trick didn't record all nine to begin with.

Some ideas at least. Unfortunately, no record company's ever put together all nine from Wilhelm Furtwngler's live recordings AND made the right choices, but the incomplete Music & Arts WWII live performances box comes close (and at least includes the popular symphonies - you might want to at least get Scherchen's 8th to top up). One might as well start (and end) there. Ren Leibowitz's groundbreaking sixties studio cycle for Reader's Digest (best reissued by Chesky) probably remains a reference in that area, and it comes in great sound (legendary recording engineer Kenneth E. Wilkinson). Arturo Toscanini's 1951/52 cycle for RCA is legendary (and often breathtaking), if (ironically!) much more revered in the U.S. than in Europe, to me a must-hear second, third or so addition to one's collection, hardly a first choice. Bruno Walter and George Szell left at least two slightly uneven cycles each, the former with an overt tendency to emphasize beauty and joy. The great but unsung Peter Maag left us a late cycle recorded with perhaps not the greatest of Italian orchestras, but as a "complete" cycle, one soon notices it's as good (or bad, as far as the relative duds go) as any. Andr Cluytens earlier EMI cycle tends to get overlooked, but again... Oh, and if you must have Karajan (I grew up with that one), go for the earlier DG cycle (the one from 1963) - it's a little more about Beethoven and less about Karajan than his later attempts. Of course, there are several interesting modern cycles (such as Fey's, Harnoncourt's, Jrvi's and Vnsk's), but none of them reinvents the wheel. In the end, one always returns to Furtwngler and wonders what the heck's happened to classical music since.

Personally, of course, I'd always rather piece together a cycle than go for a complete one (not easy, I'll admit that). Maybe folks here will put together a list for you?

Beethoven OR Burgundy? Come on! What about food? Body care? Anything's dispensable... ;^)

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
If there is a definitive recording of the late quartets, I have yet to find it. I am not sure such a thing is possible, and enjoy a variety of different recordings. I would say that I find myself coming back often to the Emerson often, though, and would recommend those recordings highly.

For the symphonies, I agree that the Carlos Kleiber 5 & 7 is a truly extraordinary recording -- the best recording he ever made, so far as I have found. I would also recommend the Furtwangler recordings from the late 30s and eary 40s, though you have to be willing to put up with less than ideal sound quality and a willingness to overlook the setting (his March 1942 recording of the 9th, for example, is amazing, but it's a little unsettling to think about who may have been in the audience). His 6th for example, is longer than any other recording I have found, and the result is revelatory: even the third movement is filed with tension, and the whole piece is riveting. Puts most recordings to shame.

Another conductor to look out for is Hermann Scherchen. He never got the orchestras he deserved, in my opinion, but he seems to find new things in familiar pieces. He also tends to be available at reasonable prices (for example, MCA long ago put out a 2-CD set of his 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 8th that at least used to be available for under $10.)
 
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