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"Save Our Store"
- Thread starter Jeff Grossman
- Start date
In theory, couldn't this mean more potential outlets for people to be employed in the wine business. And couldn't this broaden the sale of wine?
Sure, not every grocery store will have a dedicated wine specialist-buyer. But then again not every 'wine' store has specialist buyers :)
I don't see this as a direct challenge to the types of shops that folks around here frequent. But then again I'm not a businessman.
And now that I think of it, in California you can get good Muscadet, Beaujolais, etc at certain supermarkets so there is not always a need to visit the wine shops. I would make every effort to avoid purchasing wine at the supermarket out of a desire to support wine shops, but they probably did get a few of my dollars.
Sure, not every grocery store will have a dedicated wine specialist-buyer. But then again not every 'wine' store has specialist buyers :)
I don't see this as a direct challenge to the types of shops that folks around here frequent. But then again I'm not a businessman.
And now that I think of it, in California you can get good Muscadet, Beaujolais, etc at certain supermarkets so there is not always a need to visit the wine shops. I would make every effort to avoid purchasing wine at the supermarket out of a desire to support wine shops, but they probably did get a few of my dollars.
Eden Mylunsch
Eden Mylunsch
Living in California as I do (all of my life), since I turned 21 I've never breathed a breath when I wasn't free to indulge my privilege to purchase crap wine in a supermarket. Sure, some grocery stores carry the "good stuff" but they're few and far between, and usually run by wine zealots who eventually quit the chain gang to open their own specialty wine shop in the Bohemian side of town. Having worked in wine retail shops off and on for oh, 30 years now, I can count on one four-fingered hand the number of times that customers have remarked to me "I can get that cheaper at Ralphs, Vons, Food For Less, Safeway, or The 99 Only store."
I even recall one afternoon when the local supermarket was offering KJ's Chardonnay for two dollars a bottle cheaper than Southern was selling it to us. We contacted SWS, they told us to go pound sand, so we went over and bought three pallets of the stuff (using a mound of cash, because such B2B transactions aren't exactly legal). A month later (long after their sale was over) we marked it up a buck from our cost and blew it out. Everybody won, except for the SWS salesperson. I think he was subsequently transferred to Poway for not hitting his numbers.
In the ideal scenario, the specialty wine shops stop carrying the brands that fill the supermarket shelves. Sure, some liquor stores (you can tell which ones they are by their "Visit Our Wine Cellar" signs) are going to lose out on potential sales of Gallo, Yellowtail, Beringer, and Sutter Home to the supermarkets, but would it be such a bad thing if your corner wine shop began resembling CSW more than it does 7-11?
-Eden (people just dislike things that are different than they've always been. Such people cloak their stodginess and greed in arguments better suited for Rush Limbaugh sermons and Bill O'Reilly diatribes)(or is it the other way around?)
I even recall one afternoon when the local supermarket was offering KJ's Chardonnay for two dollars a bottle cheaper than Southern was selling it to us. We contacted SWS, they told us to go pound sand, so we went over and bought three pallets of the stuff (using a mound of cash, because such B2B transactions aren't exactly legal). A month later (long after their sale was over) we marked it up a buck from our cost and blew it out. Everybody won, except for the SWS salesperson. I think he was subsequently transferred to Poway for not hitting his numbers.
In the ideal scenario, the specialty wine shops stop carrying the brands that fill the supermarket shelves. Sure, some liquor stores (you can tell which ones they are by their "Visit Our Wine Cellar" signs) are going to lose out on potential sales of Gallo, Yellowtail, Beringer, and Sutter Home to the supermarkets, but would it be such a bad thing if your corner wine shop began resembling CSW more than it does 7-11?
-Eden (people just dislike things that are different than they've always been. Such people cloak their stodginess and greed in arguments better suited for Rush Limbaugh sermons and Bill O'Reilly diatribes)(or is it the other way around?)
Chris Coad
Chris Coad
But what about the children?! Will NO ONE think of THE CHILDREN??!!
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
The underage access is getting more laughable every day. Tried buying cough syrup in the grocery store lately? At least in my area a store manager has to approve your ID before they will close out the purchase. I'm 42 and I have to wait for some career grocery guy to decide if I am old enough to buy Robitussin knock-off cough syrup.
And just try to make that Sudafed speedball with the real psueduoephedrine, so to speak.originally posted by David M. Bueker:
The underage access is getting more laughable every day. Tried buying cough syrup in the grocery store lately? At least in my area a store manager has to approve your ID before they will close out the purchase. I'm 42 and I have to wait for some career grocery guy to decide if I am old enough to buy Robitussin knock-off cough syrup.
Bill Averett
Bill Averett
originally posted by Rahsaan:
In theory, couldn't this mean more potential outlets for people to be employed in the wine business. And couldn't this broaden the sale of wine?
Sure, not every grocery store will have a dedicated wine specialist-buyer. But then again not every 'wine' store has specialist buyers :)
I don't see this as a direct challenge to the types of shops that folks around here frequent. But then again I'm not a businessman.
And now that I think of it, in California you can get good Muscadet, Beaujolais, etc at certain supermarkets so there is not always a need to visit the wine shops. I would make every effort to avoid purchasing wine at the supermarket out of a desire to support wine shops, but they probably did get a few of my dollars.
In Virginia Beach, the retail IS grocery stores and Total Wine. Not that there are not some very noble people trying to run successful wine shops, but they are always behind the 8-ball. They struggle to stay afloat. The Charmer, Gallo, Constellation, Palm Bay houses send their reps into these shops when they have new product, pledging that this wine will not end up in a supermarket, and 2 months later, the wine is on every endcap. This kills the small guy. I believe it is in these companies best interests to put the little guy out of business.
A grocery store buyer, is a "dumb" buyer. A market full of grocery store buyers, drives competition down for the good bottles of wine, and prices up. If there is only one wine shop selling a particular wine, they can charge whatever they want. Great for the merchant, bad for the consumer.
I would vote to keep the wines out of grocery stores. Then again, if every grocery in NYC had KJ, maybe you could suck the well dry.
Putnam Weekley
putnam
A grocery store buyer, is a "dumb" buyer.
In what sense? a) passive, b) speechless, c) stupid, d) all three, or e) other.
I don't think a lot of people here understand how much to the bottom line these mass brands mean to most of the wine stores in NY. Yeah, I kind have been touting the line to some of my customers that they'll be able to focus on other brands, but a lot of shop owners are very afraid, plus, it really is a competitive advantage to supermarkets as they're also allowed to sell water, beer, food, etc., whereas wine stores here in NY aren't allowed to sell those items. Plus, in NY we have franchise laws that prohibit chains. Well, how is it that grocery stores can have multiple outlets and not wine stores? Again, unfair competitive advantage.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
American rules on wine and spirits are so weird.
originally posted by Brad Kane:
I don't think a lot of people here understand how much to the bottom line these mass brands mean to most of the wine stores in NY. Yeah, I kind have been touting the line to some of my customers that they'll be able to focus on other brands, but a lot of shop owners are very afraid, plus, it really is a competitive advantage to supermarkets as they're also allowed to sell water, beer, food, etc., whereas wine stores here in NY aren't allowed to sell those items. Plus, in NY we have franchise laws that prohibit chains. Well, how is it that grocery stores can have multiple outlets and not wine stores? Again, unfair competitive advantage.
Brad - exactly. The law proposed is not a level playing field. Unlike wine shops in many other parts of the country (CA & MASS come quickly to mind), in NYS, liquor stores are NOT ALLOWED to sell anything other than booze. Heck, there was a store in Rochester that was slapped with a hefty fine just before Christmas for selling GIFT BAGS to put wine BOTTLES in! This past weekend, I went to the local Price Chopper and there was a woman giving out demo-food and asking if I wanted to sign this petition. We were talking a little, and her eyes narrowed as I mentioned the argument people against this bill use to 'keep the children safe' was a bit spurious, then as we talked, I decided against signing it because I thought this was unfair to shops who want to go the gourmet food-cheese route, since they still would not legally be able to do that (some stores have gotten around that by having one of those food stores in the same plaza but separated by a glass wall, legally being two separate entitites). Then on Sunday, I go to the fancy Wegmans in Syracuse and find a petition table smack dab in front of the produce section as you walk into the store, with ballons and greeters telling people that this will be the best thing to happen since the Second Coming. With one of the Wegman daughters owning what was the premier wine store in Rochester after Sherwood Deutsch sold it, I am pretty sure they had a role in promoting this proposal to Governor Patterson.
originally posted by SFJoe:
And just try to make that Sudafed speedball with the real psueduoephedrine, so to speak.
Been hitting the Sudafed a bit too much yourself? I got into a rather spirited discussion with a "pharmacist" at 2 am one night when, in search of Nyquil, I had to wait at the counter for 5-10 minutes to get it. I asked said pharmacist if he could explain to me how one would extract the 5-10 mg of pseudoephedrine out of Nyquil to use in a meth lab. I offered that anyone who tried it was welcome to the results.
Mark Lipton
A similar change to the law was killed, recently, in MA. I have to say that I have sympathies on both sides. I understand that retailers don't want to be undercut by the supermarkets when it comes to the highly profitable case stacks of lousy wine from Constellation/Gallo/Clicquot/etc. But I also think it would be nice for the general health of the wine industry for said wine to be more generally available. I tend to lean towards the latter as being a more compelling argument, but I was of sufficiently conflicted that when asked to speak to the legislature on this issue -- which I did a few years earlier on a direct shipping law (fat lot of good that did; we won the battle but lost the war a few days later) -- I decided not to.
It's more security theater. Like the TSA.originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:
And just try to make that Sudafed speedball with the real psueduoephedrine, so to speak.
Been hitting the Sudafed a bit too much yourself? I got into a rather spirited discussion with a "pharmacist" at 2 am one night when, in search of Nyquil, I had to wait at the counter for 5-10 minutes to get it. I asked said pharmacist if he could explain to me how one would extract the 5-10 mg of pseudoephedrine out of Nyquil to use in a meth lab. I offered that anyone who tried it was welcome to the results.
Mark Lipton
originally posted by SFJoe:
It's more security theater. Like the TSA.
At least the pharmacists in my town aren't yet packin', so it makes it easier to engage in witty banter with them. I tend to restrict my exchanges with TSA flunkies to "yes" and "OK": cavity searches get old quickly.
Mark Lipton
Eden Mylunsch
Eden Mylunsch
originally posted by Brad Kane:
plus, it really is a competitive advantage to supermarkets as they're also allowed to sell water, beer, food, etc., whereas wine stores here in NY aren't allowed to sell those items. Plus, in NY we have franchise laws that prohibit chains. Well, how is it that grocery stores can have multiple outlets and not wine stores? Again, unfair competitive advantage.
Well, out here in California, the mom 'n' pop stores ARE allowed to sell lottery tickets, condoms, soda pop, cigarettes, potato chips, artisanal cheese and charcuturie, and even the ever-popular packages of panty-hose that are so handy to have available when you're headed over the hold up the mom 'n' pop liquor store down the street. Perhaps this forward-thinking approach to commerce is partially responsible for the high esteem in which we are held in the bond rating community.
I've emancipated myself from having to stand behind a counter flogging booze anymore and I can definitely see both sides of this story.
-Eden (laissez faire, baby)
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
I'm sympathetic with the NY Wine stores, but as a data point, grocery stores sell wine and beer in Virginia, and specialty wine stores are still supported, although not in such great numbers as in NYC (which is a special case, in any event, because of the concentration of people there). This is also so in Washington, D.C., (though I think there is some limitation on sale through supermarkets), and there are a few notable stores in the District. What's the status in California - I think the supermarkets sell there, too, que no?
Cole Kendall
Cole Kendall
DC has a few restrictions (that seem to be fading); supermarkets can only sell wine (not spirits) if they are open Sunday and only one or two per chain can sell wine (though this was stricter when I first moved here). Some supermarkets (Safeway, Harris Teeter) sell almost only what the distributor brings in while others (Whole Foods, depending on the manager of the wine department) have nicer stuff. But wine stores (e.g., Calvert Woodley) can sell cheese, bread and wine stuff, so the playing field is more level.
The upshot is that I could buy wine at a dozen locations between my home and Dupont Circle but usually don't.
Cole
The upshot is that I could buy wine at a dozen locations between my home and Dupont Circle but usually don't.
Cole
The upshot is that I could buy wine at a dozen locations between my home and Dupont Circle
Every bureaucracy needs lubrication.