Tasting Notes

originally posted by SFJoe:
It has been reportedthat Eric Asimov has come out against tasting notes as, among other things, hostile to the newbies.
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While I would probably agree with Eric if I read his piece, I will say that I hate fruit salad tasting notes.

And fuck the newbies. Seriously, should we dumb it down or give them the benefit of the doubt that they can step up. The apartheid of low expectations. Hitler.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by SFJoe:
It has been reportedthat Eric Asimov has come out against tasting notes as, among other things, hostile to the newbies.
Click to expand...

While I would probably agree with Eric if I read his piece, I will say that I hate fruit salad tasting notes.

And fuck the newbies. Seriously, should we dumb it down or give them the benefit of the doubt that they can step up. The apartheid of low expectations. Hitler.
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Exactement!
 
originally posted by VLM:

While I would probably agree with Eric if I read his piece, I will say that I hate fruit salad tasting notes.

And fuck the newbies. Seriously, should we dumb it down or give them the benefit of the doubt that they can step up. The apartheid of low expectations. Hitler.
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Oh my ears and whiskers.
 
There are levels of tn's and then there are other levels of tn's. It seems many disorderlies are interested in tracking the "behavior" of certain bottles of wine over time.....let's say F Jim's Overnoy Poulsard 06 is an example. RLdH wines are another example, etc, etc.....people are exchanging info on the state of a certain wine at a certain time and I think this serves an entirely different function than the point power spewed from the front pages of WA/WS et al., no?.

And....if we shouldn't use earth, fruit, wood analogies anymore, how about concrete, steel and plastic? (We could certainly talk about structure, I suppose....and concrete does have limey taste...oops do we get our hands slapped for saying so?)

Blind tasting on the other hand is something I rarely do, so in fact I enjoy knowing the wine as i drink it (and it's terroir/winemaker/history/etc) most of the time. I do think blind tasting can be useful on occasion.....and I think that originally, RP's style of blind-over-pedigree tasting was a good move, to crack open the free ride many pedigree winemakers seemed to be getting.....but it has run it's course.

It would be refreshing to see someone of RP's stature make a jump into a different way of communicating.....he could start by swearing off the use of the word "WOW" and eschew the numbers altogether, maybe?
 
Joel, d'accord.

I always thought the I Spy stuff was more about fantasy than wine (probably because I'm so bad at it), but notes on flaws, winemaking styles, food matches and--especially--drinking windows are very useful.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Joe and Steve seem to be on the same wave length today.
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I don't agree.

Steve said that a TN can be more than fruit salad. That is right.

Joe said that but also added that we should stop writing TNs. That is not right.

And not the same thing.
 
I think the Politburo should consider banning all conversation about wine and limit everyone to discussing hockey, English Premier League, books, old HBO series, and movies.
 
originally posted by Bwood:
I think the Politburo should consider banning all conversation about wine and limit everyone to discussing hockey, English Premier League, books, old HBO series, and movies.
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Don't forget Kant. There's been a serious shortage of discussion of the categorical imperative recently.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Bwood:
I think the Politburo should consider banning all conversation about wine and limit everyone to discussing hockey, English Premier League, books, old HBO series, and movies.
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Don't forget Kant. There's been a serious shortage of discussion of the categorical imperative recently.

Mark Lipton
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Ok, they should include chemistry and Kant.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Joe and Steve seem to be on the same wave length today.

Tasting notes for me are a beginning; of a conversation, of a relationship with that particular wine, and, hopefully of a relationship with those who are participating in any conversation the note evokes.
It is a fine thing when people can discuss a common enjoyment, whether face-to-face or over the internet, and then later meet in person with at least that as common background.

Tasting notes are seeds.
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I could not have said it better, Jim. I find myself conflicted in considering this broadside against the tasting note (as, indeed, I did with it the first time I read it). I find that my own appreciation and enjoyment of wine is maximized when I am able to sit down with at most a few wines and spend a few hours with them, preferably in the context of a meal. From what I read of your notes, I believe that you feel much the same. More and more, I limit my attendance of large scale tasting events to 1-2 per year, one a charity event where there is also a nice silent auction and the other the get-together in Toledo. I find these events overwhelming and my own behavior usually results in sketchy impressions of the wines. Yet, like you, I find the act of writing up impressions of wines to be the start of a conversation and the tasting note a vehicle for communicating something, be it pleasure, disappointment, anger or love. The clinical tasting note comes naturally to me, likely because of my vocation, but the metaphorical probably does as well in the end. Do I learn more from "mineral and saline lime" or "taking a shower while seated on a sofa"? Beats me.

Mark Lipton
 
Well, as between writing tasting notes or taking potshots at people who do, I know it's a hell of lot easier to just take the potshots.

One question is whether there a better jumping off point for discussion of wine. The thing is, people are free to try to establish some such novel jumping off point if they feel so inclined to inspire and lead.
 
originally posted by Thor:
We really need the kind of antagonism and bile that this kind of pompous bloviating inspires again.
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I understand Bill O'Reilly is readying an anti-tasting note rant.
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I think there's no need for his contribution at this point. Seems redundant.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
tasting-notes are for cock-monkeys.

fb.
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Thoughtful commentary, we are all the better for it. Dressner and all thoughful right-thinking elitists should be proud of this clear declaration of purpose!
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Steve said that a TN can be more than fruit salad. That is right.

Joe said that but also added that we should stop writing TNs. That is not right.

And not the same thing.
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But my point was that both were talking about Hitler and named their posts accordingly - you see?
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Bwood:
One question is whether there a better jumping off point for discussion of wine.
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That is my view. They provide a snapshot, which can be useful, and they provoke discussion, which is the purpose of these fora. Plus, they can be entertaining in the right hands.
 
Of course, there is a place for large scale social tastings. And if people enjoy them they certainly should indulge themselves. I go to the occasional jebus but largely to see my friends, not really to enjoy wine.

On a professional level, I attend many large tastings. I always view my tastings there as approximative (tasting new vintages from vignerons, etc.) but always expect to visit the vignerons afterward and spend a few hours tasting new releases, from barrel, assembling blends, tasting old bottles, visiting the vines, telling jokes, breaking bread and just basically getting to know the vineyards and the producer. Pre-cancer, the most I could do was three a day. Of course, I take notes as I taste.

My objection is to the tasting note becoming more important than the vineyard, wine and vignerons. My objection is to the tasting note substituting for the wine as an evolving experience based on context. I think this is a recent phenomena and a regrettable one which reduces live wines to a commodity fetish. Vignerons produce live wines, not material ripe for transformation into tasting notes.

Personally, I take notes whenever I taste wines and I find this useful for my memory. But I don't confuse my tasting notes for the wine. The tasting notes are only approximations.

Lastly, I think the tasting note proposes some sort of hokus-pokus expertise as a substitute for listening to and understanding the wine. It is part of the culture of specialists and experts (I am a guy with two oncologists) which seeks to mystify the natural world.

Listening_to_Wine.jpg
 
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